A320 max braking procedure

jafra98

jafra98

Well-Known Member
Was on a flight yesterday where the pilot stated that he was going to use max braking procedure to be able to turn on the first taxiway. The aircraft landed softly (best landing I have ever been on a A320) and then without the use of reversers stopped very quickly. I guess it used less than 4,000 feet of runway.....................;)
 
mshunter said:
What's the point? If there is runway there, use some of it. It makes for an uncomfortable ride. The people in the back should never know the plane ever left the gate.
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If only I could figure out how to impart that on the Russian I fly with...there are too many TMAAT stories for interviews or over beers, though.
 
Stone Cold said:
If only I could figure out how to impart that on the Russian I fly with...there are too many TMAAT stories for interviews or over beers, though.
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I learned flying charter and corporate real quick, that the guys who just flew, rather than paid attention and attempted to be smooth, were usually the first ones looking for a new job. I take pride in my work. Plus, if I take care of my equipment, it usually takes care of me.
 
mshunter said:
What's the point? If there is runway there, use some of it. It makes for an uncomfortable ride. The people in the back should never know the plane ever left the gate.
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I don't know if they have to test the systems. The other possible reason was that the next available taxiway due to airport construction was at the end of the 12,000' runway.
 
jafra98 said:
I don't know if they have to test the systems. The other possible reason was that the next available taxiway due to airport construction was at the end of the 12,000' runway.
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Being hard on the equipment because of taxi way closures? Sounds more like "get-there-itis" to me. Save it for when you really need it. I routinely use the second high speed in an RJ without throwing a wrench in the flow. With 12k feet, set it down, and let it roll to the end. Then, don't taxi like a d-bag. You may end up 2 minutes early, instead of 3.
 
Could've been a LAHSO issue or taxiway closures or any number of reasons... Without being there and seeing the situation, you're really only guessing.
But I would say there usually aren't good reasons to use a 'max braking' procedure. It's very hard on the equipment and then you run the risk of hot brakes and blown tires. Brake fan do help nicely with that, however.
 
jafra98 said:
Was on a flight yesterday where the pilot stated that he was going to use max braking procedure to be able to turn on the first taxiway. The aircraft landed softly (best landing I have ever been on a A320) and then without the use of reversers stopped very quickly. I guess it used less than 4,000 feet of runway.....................;)
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Autobrakes medium instead of low?
 
jafra98 said:
Was on a flight yesterday where the pilot stated that he was going to use max braking procedure to be able to turn on the first taxiway. The aircraft landed softly (best landing I have ever been on a A320) and then without the use of reversers stopped very quickly. I guess it used less than 4,000 feet of runway.....................;)
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Maximum effort braking or "MAX AUTO BRK"?
 
scooter2525 said:
Could you explain this a little further?
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With a dry runway (Good braking action) and smashing on the brakes manually the reversers buy you about 340' shorter stopping. With a contaminated RWY you'll have longer distances and reversers will benefit you more.

With autobrakes landing "MED" is normally the highest approved autobrakes. (Still very effective). On a dry RWY reversers shorten distance 20'. That's twenty feet.

Reason being the autobrakes brake to achieve a certain deceleration. With the reversers operating the brakes will release pressure to meet the required deceleration so on a dry runway it's a wash.

BTW Im just pulling #'s out of my work IPad perf #'s.
 
Landing at SNA a few weeks ago, I briefed the captain that I would not be finessing the landing and would get on the brakes early and heavy as it is a short runway. He didn't add any commentary to the briefing so I landed exactly how I said I would and got on the brakes. Landing in the touchdown zone and then slowing enough to make the second to last exit, he said "Whoa, save the brakes!" To which I replied, "Your airplane"

I really haven't seen a compelling argument in aviation for "saving the brakes". Hey, I want to be smooth and give everyone a nice ride. But sometimes you need to use the brakes and it's okay to use them within their operating envelope. Teaching pilots to be afraid of "wasting" or "being hard on" brakes is beyond my scope of understanding.

It's a part that will be replaced fairly frequently. In transport aircraft we have very advanced materials, we check the indicators on every flight, and we have systems that monitor the brake temps. To pretend that these are delicate parts that might not work right if you use them too much seems like a lack of technical understanding. And I think that goes back to primary flight training.
 
Cal Goat said:
Landing at SNA a few weeks ago, I briefed the captain that I would not be finessing the landing and would get on the brakes early and heavy as it is a short runway. He didn't add any commentary to the briefing so I landed exactly how I said I would and got on the brakes. Landing in the touchdown zone and then slowing enough to make the second to last exit, he said "Whoa, save the brakes!" To which I replied, "Your airplane"

.
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What AC? Never heard save the brakes, and I'm a guy who hardly ever uses more than idle reverse
 
Baronman said:
What AC? Never heard save the brakes, and I'm a guy who hardly ever uses more than idle reverse
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CRJ700. The captain was kind of a weird, man-child. Not a lot of confidence in his leadership.

Some runways, I'll never touch the brakes. SFO: land and idle reverse through the 1's. DEN, more or less the same depending on how close behind the next guy is.

All I'm arguing is that on a short runway with fully functioning brake systems, you shouldn't be afraid to press the pedals all the way down. 99.9% of the time you don't even need to. But acting afraid of heavy braking seems like an unhealthy way to live.
 
Baronman said:
With a dry runway (Good braking action) and smashing on the brakes manually the reversers buy you about 340' shorter stopping. With a contaminated RWY you'll have longer distances and reversers will benefit you more.

With autobrakes landing "MED" is normally the highest approved autobrakes. (Still very effective). On a dry RWY reversers shorten distance 20'. That's twenty feet.

Reason being the autobrakes brake to achieve a certain deceleration. With the reversers operating the brakes will release pressure to meet the required deceleration so on a dry runway it's a wash.

BTW Im just pulling #'s out of my work IPad perf #'s.
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Thanks.
 
Autobrakes are a "deceleration rate" so if you add more reverser, the brakes reduce pressure and you'll stop in "X" amount of distance.

If you add no reverser, the brakes will increase pressure and you will still then stop in "X" amount of distance.

Reserve idle will increase your brake temp, somewhat. Brakes will eventually cool, no biggie. They're engineered to get hot anyway.
Heavy reserve will decrease your brake temp, somewhat. Makes a lot of noise, increases your change of FOD ingestion and, welp, makes you feel more manly on the internet.

Carbon-fiber brakes, some at least, have heating "problems". Not necessarily problems per se, but they like to heat up. Which is good because a single firm application of brakes increases the brake life, whereas a bunch of smaller incremental "punches" at it actually decrease brake life.

My airline doesn't teach "save the brakes" and I don't even know what that means.

*Autobrakes LO MED and MAX really isn't braking deceleration, it's really more of the pause between initial application and full autobraking. I'm not sure what the manufacturer says, but if you use MAX on landing, FOQA reporting is going to win you a nice trip to the chief pilots office's "Big Brown Desk" to explain yourself and there's nothing funnier than attempting to use the fabled Get Out of Jail FREE card of "Captains authority!" when it's for no good reason, especially simply attempting to make an early turnoff.


* JC's very own FiFi school teacher @PeanuckleCRJ may have some figures he could share.
 
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