a not so quick question

TheShortOne

Well-Known Member
I was thinking (surprise!) yesterday about this ... why do all international flights arrive really early in the morning to Europe? Wouldn't it make more sense to leave the states early in the AM and get to Europe in time to go to bed there? wouldn't that make the adjustment to the time change a bit easier? Does anyone know the purpose for flying overnight flights internationally?
 
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I was thinking (surprise!) yesterday about this ... why do all international flights arrive really early in the morning to Europe? Wouldn't it make more sense to leave the states early in the AM and get to Europe in time to go to bed there? wouldn't that make the adjustment to the time change a bit easier? Does anyone know the purpose for flying overnight flights internationally?

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I am just guessing here........

But, the sooner you spend a whole day (during daylight) the easier it will be to adjust your body clock. Force yourself to stay awake and spend a day there and you will hopefully have no problem falling asleep and waking up to their normal time the next morning.

Also, nobody really wants (at least I wouldn't) to take an international flight just to go to bed right away and then start the morning. That would be a waste of money on a hotel.
 
I think there are two factors:

1. Business people can get some sleep and go right into a meeting there.

2. Probably more importantly, it allows the airline to get the max number of connecting flights to the international gateway.

The FedEx flights leave in the early morning to get there in the evening, so items shipped through the hub will get there that evening for delivery the next day, connecting with the hub sort times, etc.
 
There are a handful of day flights to Europe ... American and British Airways have them out of New York and Boston to London. Although you feel a lot better when you arrive because you haven't lost a night of sleep, for most people, the cost of a European hotel room isn't worth the one night of mediocre/poor rest that comes with an overnight flight. Also, with exception to the eastern most cities in the US, it'd be difficult to leave in the morning and arrive in Europe at a reasonable hour that same night. Keep in mind too that the majority of the passengers on overseas flights are connecting onto them from other US cities that don't have direct international service ... because it'd be impossible to connect onto a morning departure to Europe, that means that the airlines are relying 100% on passengers that are originating in the departure city on the day of the flight. Demand just doesn't justify having more of these flights.
 
There are flights that leave in the morning from the east coast, but...

If you arrive early in the morning over here (Germany) there are a lot of connections to choose from if the gateway is not a your final destination. Keep in mind that large airports in Europe do close at night (including FRA). If an airline wants to takeoff or land between the hours of 22:00 and 06:00 there are extra fines and fees that are charged and must be paid for due to the noise they produce. That is why many freight companies choose other places as their hubs - like Cologne Airport, where noise is just part of the ops and is accepted and tolerated.

Generally a transatlantic flight will turn around in about 3 hours getting back to the US in the early evening, again, making it possible to catch connections to other destinations.

When I worked in travel it was usually hard to find a connection for the AA and UA flights that left the east coast in the morning because they arrived in Europe around 23:00, so unless that was your final destination you were stuck at the airport or hotel until the next morning.

That’s me not so short answer!
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Honestly, when I get to another country after a long trip I dont want to sleep a wink. I like to get right into having fun, beer in hand
 
As a tourist I liked leaving ATL at 7-8pm, sleeping on the plane, and arriving in Europe in the morning.
 
When I go home - back to WA - I don't have a problem with jet lag, but when I come back to Germany it takes about a week to get over the jet lag. Or maybe I should stop sleeping at work, might get better rest at night.
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Ugh. I tried that whole "sleep on the plane" BS when my high school german class took a trip to Europe. It sucked like bad. I'm never going to do that one again.
 
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Honestly, when I get to another country after a long trip I dont want to sleep a wink. I like to get right into having fun, beer in hand

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H$LL yeah!! Sleep is for sissies!

I remember deploying, and getting the "Off-Limits Establishments" list. I'd always go to the First Sergeant and make sure that I knew exactly where all of the areas were, so that I wouldn't "accidently find myself there...".

grin.gif
 
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Honestly, when I get to another country after a long trip I dont want to sleep a wink. I like to get right into having fun, beer in hand

[/ QUOTE ]

H$LL yeah!! Sleep is for sissies!

I remember deploying, and getting the "Off-Limits Establishments" list. I'd always go to the First Sergeant and make sure that I knew exactly where all of the areas were, so that I wouldn't "accidently find myself there...".

grin.gif


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Oh yeah.... I cant shower and get dressed fast enough when I arrive. Take in all the fun you can possibly have
 
This is one of those times where marketing has to yield to flight operations to some extent.

The North Atlantic tracks are one way. This is necessary to accomodate the large number of flights that transit between Europe and North America. The tracks change every day based on winds to allow the most economical tracks.

They build east bound tracks for the evening flights to Europe. Then for the morning departures out of Europe they build west bound tracks. Only one direction can be active at a time.

Now you can fly the North Atlantic the "wrong way" but you will need to be able to fly very high or you will be restricted to flying very low, probably FL290 and below. Corporate and military do it all the time. Gulfstreams can usually fly above the altitudes the air carriers can use. Of course the old Concorde never had any issues about traffic.

If airlines suddenly started messing around with their schedule it would raise havoc in the Atlantic. Also connecting banks are pretty much set up for the current schedule.

The only way this will change in the future is to get some way for positive control of traffic over the Atlantic. By that I mean radar or something that precisely shows the position of aircraft. Then there will be plenty of airspace and anybody can go any direction they want.

Dave
 
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The only way this will change in the future is to get some way for positive control of traffic over the Atlantic. By that I mean radar or something that precisely shows the position of aircraft. Then there will be plenty of airspace and anybody can go any direction they want.

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You've found the answer, Dave! More aircraft carriers!! And AWACS birds! then, they'll have to share with civil ATC, and wolla : problem solved!!

grin.gif
 
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The only way this will change in the future is to get some way for positive control of traffic over the Atlantic. By that I mean radar or something that precisely shows the position of aircraft. Then there will be plenty of airspace and anybody can go any direction they want.

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You've found the answer, Dave! More aircraft carriers!! And AWACS birds! then, they'll have to share with civil ATC, and wolla : problem solved!!

grin.gif


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Works for me!
smile.gif
 
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[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, when I get to another country after a long trip I dont want to sleep a wink. I like to get right into having fun, beer in hand

[/ QUOTE ]

H$LL yeah!! Sleep is for sissies!

I remember deploying, and getting the "Off-Limits Establishments" list. I'd always go to the First Sergeant and make sure that I knew exactly where all of the areas were, so that I wouldn't "accidently find myself there...".

grin.gif


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LMAO! Can't BS a BS'er, buddy!
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Honestly, when I get to another country after a long trip I dont want to sleep a wink. I like to get right into having fun, beer in hand

[/ QUOTE ]

H$LL yeah!! Sleep is for sissies!

I remember deploying, and getting the "Off-Limits Establishments" list. I'd always go to the First Sergeant and make sure that I knew exactly where all of the areas were, so that I wouldn't "accidently find myself there...".

grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO! Can't BS a BS'er buddy!
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Well, at least it would make him think I was trying to be good...lol.
 
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And out of all of these "Off Limits Establishments", First Sergeant, which one would you say is the worst??....
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grin.gif
I bumped into quite a few Staff NCO's at some of these off-duty establishments...while I was making sure none of my friends were lost there!!
 
Sheesh, man, if you deployed to Asia, I have no idea how you managed to stay awake the entire flight. When I went to SIN, I slept like a baby. And then when I got to SIN, I got in at about 11:00 PM so it was bed time. It worked out okay!
 
I flew NRT-DTW with 4 other soldiers. Our objective was to drink the plane dry and yes we succeeded, we think!

No time for sleep on that flight!
laugh.gif
 
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