A nightmare for JetBlue passengers at JFK

mpenguin1

mpenguin1

Well-Known Member
February 14, 2007) - At JFK Airport, at least four JetBlue planes were stuck on the runway fully loaded with passengers and children for up to 8 hours.

The planes were running out of food and water -- and the passengers were running out of patience.

Airport officials say if JetBlue had told them that they had people needing rescuing on planes out on the tarmac, they would have sent buses. They said JetBlue didn't call the airport to tell them that until after 3 p.m.


http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=traffic&id=5034846
 
I saw on the morning news this morning. I am wondering about this - Can airlines push the empty plane to some other place then occupy the gates? :confused: So people can get off the plane. To me, that makes more sense.
 
adreamer said:
I saw on the morning news this morning. I am wondering about this - Can airlines push the empty plane to some other place then occupy the gates? :confused: So people can get off the plane. To me, that makes more sense.
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is this that common? same thing happened with the AAL plane like 2 weeks ago....
 
Depends. A LOT of weird stuff happens operationally at the airport so it's hard to gauge how common or the core reasons of what happened.

KPIT, at least on Southernjet's side, went down to a one gate operation at times because there was an unmoveable mad dog LITERALLY frozen there.

Airplanes and airports are like sports fans and stadiums. If everyone got up simulutaenously to use the toilets, there's going to be massive delays and coordination problems.
 
I hate regulations as much as the next guy, but it seems very strange to me that the airlines have the power to keep people on an airplane going nowhere for 9+ hours. I think we should pick a number - perhaps 3 hours - that they get to "wait for a break in the weather". After that, they must let the people off the plane, using busses if necessary, and regroup in the terminal.
 
Though I agree, I believe the problem was that they were stuck in a long line on the taxiway. It would have taken moving some 30 planes around, in probably white-out conditions, just to get them all back to the gates. That is if the taxiways were clear enough to move.

I gotta say though, it seems absolutely outrageous that someone would be cooped up on a plane that long on the ground. I would be going out of my mind. It seems kind of common too. I hear the same story time after time. How friggin hard is it to start running buses out to the planes and getting these people back inside? Personally, I am surprised noone popped a hatch and made a run for it in any of these occurences.

A related story----I was at JFK last Friday. Man, what a goat-rope! Its' like they don't plan for anything. When we pushed back, it seemed like almost every other plane at the airport was doing the same thing. After an hour of taxiing, where we actually did a full 180 on a taxiway and went back the way we came, we ended up in what seemed like an ENDLESS line. I counted 36 planes in front of us for takeoff. Thats' nuts!
 
When we pushed back, it seemed like almost every other plane at the airport was doing the same thing.
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I thought most hub airports are pretty much the same. They schedule every flights' departure time so close together. It was no even funny. From one of my flight out of ATL, CA practically said "Folks, we are racing against another planes. So, we we see how fast we can get in line." The result, I counted about 6 planes in front of us and 18 more behind when we were position and hold. :nana2:
 
The only issue I have is that if someone arbitrarily picks two hours as a ground time, you're going to go from a delayed flight in the queue for de-ice to a cancelled flight and resulting oversells then you may not get out for days.

People want cheap tickets at all costs. Which means cattlecar configurations, fewer airport personnel and almost a "JIT inventory" system of 'hot bunked' gates where as an aircraft is pushing back, another is arriving.

You've got to have a properly configured gate to return to.

And once you get to the gate, it's got to have support personnel because if the airport is under irregular operations, a competing airline sure in hell isn't going to rush over to help a Jetblue park at an American Airlines gate in Boston.

When the passengers deplane, who answers questions? American? Good luck! :)

If people want spare aircraft, spare gates, food on delays, endless amounts of resources, and $200/night hotel rooms, they're going to have to learn that $120 to fly transcon will be a thing of the past that we tell our grandchildren to their amazement. Much like how mom and dad used to buy $.25 cheeseburgers and $0.08 gas.
 
Personally at the 3 hour tick I would of demanded to be kicked off the plane. To hell if it costs me my ticket, that is ridiculous to expect someone to wait that out.

I've pounded the ramp for up to 6 hours waiting for Freddy to get fixed, but there is not a chance I'd ever let my passengers stay on, and they've got a small town to travel around on the c5.

oh man, I would of been ready to kill someone.
 
Personally, I would gladly pay more money for flights and think it is LONG overdue. Until the airlines unite a little bit and agree not to cut each others throats by underselling the guy that went higher on prices, it will stay the same. Will that ever happen I wonder? Prolly' not.

On the other side of the coin, I have noticed that USAir's tickets are almost double any other fare when our corporate travel agent returns options for flights to me. I mean, I have probably taken 2-3 dozen trips in the last 2+ years to destinations all over the country, and not once has a USAir fare come even close. In fact, they are the ONLY major I have not flown on. How do they make any money if it is always more expensive?
 
thestaton said:
Personally at the 3 hour tick I would of demanded to be kicked off the plane. To hell if it costs me my ticket, that is ridiculous to expect someone to wait that out.

I've pounded the ramp for up to 6 hours waiting for Freddy to get fixed, but there is not a chance I'd ever let my passengers stay on, and they've got a small town to travel around on the c5.

oh man, I would of been ready to kill someone.
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Yeah I have spent plenty of time sitting on a 141 waiting to get fixed (Usually praying it doesnt so I have more time off somewhere cool). Like the FRED though, there is plenty of room to meander around. Never sat in the plane with it all buttoned up either.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
A related story----I was at JFK last Friday. Man, what a goat-rope! Its' like they don't plan for anything. When we pushed back, it seemed like almost every other plane at the airport was doing the same thing. After an hour of taxiing, where we actually did a full 180 on a taxiway and went back the way we came, we ended up in what seemed like an ENDLESS line. I counted 36 planes in front of us for takeoff. Thats' nuts!
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if you were leaving between 4-7pm that is when they have the big european push. i agree it is a nightmare. i have learned my lesson after sitting on the tarmac for 2+ hours slowly inching up as european flight after european flight took off. i think they go down to one operational runway for takeoff and they use 13l for arrivals. basically what i am trying to say is i agree with you it is a mad house. doug have fun!
 
I think people are missing the point. It may have taken 9 hours to get off the plane, but the question is, how much of that time was spent trying to get back to a gate to unload. I spent 2 hours one night trying to get from the bottom end of the DCA ramp back up to the commuter world to unload PAX after we canceled. We had already spent an hour getting down there and an hour waiting to deice and for the airport to re open. So we spent 4 hours on the plane total (for a 1 hour flight) but half of that was us trying to get back to the gates. There is always the possibility of sending out buses to retrieve passengers, but for non rj type aircraft (and some RJs too) that involves sending out some airstairs as well AND security people to make sure nobody wanders away. Not to mention if you are on a taxiway and not a ramp area you are talking about coordinating things with ATC as well.

9 hours is excessive, but it may have not been as easy as simply calling it a day and taxiing back to an open gate. Jetblue put out a company wide groundstop mid day because they ran out of gate space at JFK. If the planes weren't going anywhere there was no place to put the inbounds and no place for the aircraft stuck off the gate to return to.
 
It was about 9PM, but yeah it did look like a ton of big tin from over the pond. It's not that I haven't been number one zillion for takeoff before (Actually a SWA Pilot said that over the intercom at PHX last month. They are funny people), it was just the last straw of a crappy travel day.
-Got screwed by Freedom out of MCH. 3 hours delay.
-The inbound flight of my JFK-AUS ride was late arriving. We all boarded and the FA's decided we needed to wait for more nuts and drinks before we could leave. We all sat there at the gate for an hour and 10 mins.

Another hour and a half of getting the grand tour of the JFK taxi system was enough to make me, someone who usually does not get uspet over flight delays, angry. It was on a Friday at the end of a long business trip in cold arse NH too.
 
i hear ya! sometimes it can be very annoying. i like taking united so you can listen to the ground and have an idea of what is going on. who knows it is and always will be a nightmare!
 
The Captain should have made a decision, He was more concerned about what the company would say, than what would satisfy the customers which is normal. but I think they need to address such situations and what actions to take and improve the communication between pilots, dispatchers and airport authorities. You can't just tell a passenger we know as much as you do... that's ridiculous! or when the airport authority said the pilot never informed us,,, did they think the plane was full of dummies? I think the PAX should get alot more than a free ticket!
 
VDEE7 said:
The Captain should have made a decision, He was more concerned about what the company would say, than what would satisfy the customers which is normal. but I think they need to address such situations and what actions to take and improve the communication between pilots, dispatchers and airport authorities. You can't just tell a passenger we know as much as you do... that's ridiculous! or when the airport authority said the pilot never informed us,,, did they think the plane was full of dummies? I think the PAX should get alot more than a free ticket!
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Exactly my point, what is that maddness. Stuck on a plane even if it is First Class for that many hours is gonna get to you my friend.
 
Todays exercise!

Materials needed:
- an imagination
- a KATL 10-9 page

Scenario:
Massive weather delays due to thunderstorms in the vicinity.
You have a 'wheels up time' you've already waited hours for.

You're #5 from the runway, there's a 'double queue' of jets, totaling about 35 to 40 jets. You're taking off on Rwy 26L and you're already past intersection E13.

Two people want off the jet, the rest (full boat tonight!) want to press on because it's the last flight to Chicago that evening.

Do you:

a. Wait the estimated additional 30 minutes for takeoff.

b. Declare that you need to return the gate and spend another hour for ground control to move jets on the taxiways so you can get back to ramp 3, deplane the passengers and then spend another few hours at the back of the line further delaying the (x-2) passengers that actually wanted to go?

c. (insert answer here)

Based on a real scenario that happened to me, discuss discuss! ;)
 
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