A few questions about regionals

B

Bamaaviator

Well-Known Member
Got a few quick questions about regionals. I'm a commercial student in training right now, planning to obtain CFI/CFII afterwards and start instructing. I've been searching the forums but much of the information is kind of outdated so I'm looking for some more current info.

1. Commuting. Can regional pilots live wherever they want and commute to their base? I ask because if I were to go the 121 route, moving would be impractical for me because of having a family, and also due to the fact that I could not survive the first couple years on FO pay in many of the cities that airlines are based in due to higher cost of living. I know commuting can be hard, but how many pilots on here commute and have family? Is it hard the first year? Also, when you commute, can you commute on ANY airline? Or only a select few?

2. Schedules. I understand there's no "typical" schedule, but can somebody provide an example of how their schedule is in a week? how many days off do you usually get when on reserve, and after coming off reserve? I've heard 5 on 2 off, 6 on 1 off, 4 on 3 off. However this information was from like 6 years ago. Is this still the same at many regionals? Do your days off increase with seniority? If so, by how much? For more senior pilots, especially senior captains, what would schedules look like then?

3. Training. How long does indoc training last? Do airlines pay for your lodging, uniforms, etc?

Sorry for the multitude of questions, just very curious about the 121 route as I have considered it as a possibility lately. For a long time I was set on going the 135/91 route, never even really considered the airline route or gave it any thought. I guess the biggest discovery to me is the fact that 121 offers much more in terms of a schedule, seniority, pay, etc. Having some days off are very important to me. Thanks, I look forward to reading some of your responses.
 
Welcome to Jetcareers. This website has a multitude of information which is accessible via a great "search" function.

1. One of the great things about being an airline pilot is the ability to live anywhere in the world and be able to commute to your base of work. With that said there has to be some realm of realism. Most airlines have a section of their contract which addresses "commuters". This will normally outline how many flights the commuting pilot has to give themselves to report to work on time. Most airlines will require 2 flight options to get to work.

2. Schedules can really vary. It also depends on how the individual pilot "builds" their schedule for the month. PIlots bid for their monthly schedule. I was a commuter for some time and I'd bid for a schedule that maximized the amount of days off between work blocks. So I'd typically sit 5-6 days of reserve and then head home for 3 days.

3. Indoctrination normally lasts one week. This week is spent going over company policies and operations specifications. When it comes to lodging and all that stuff it again really depends on each airline. Some will pay for you to stay in hotels during training while some will not.

I suggest a look at Airline Pilot Central's breakdown of each individual airline that you are wanting to work. Also there is a great publication that has recently started but the name escapes me. If anyone else is willing to throw that into this discussion, that would be great. It breaks down the contract of each regional airline into a grid format.

Again, welcome to JetCareers and feel free to PM me or ask on this board. Also that search bar is a great tool.
 
1. As already posted commuting depends on the airline contract. Also depends on where you live and where you are based. How many flights per day? How many commuters? Mainline commuters verses regional commuters? Is it "your metal" flying that pairing? How many legs?
2. I'll leave reserve schedule to others. It's been... a few years since I sat reserve.
3. When I hear about 1 week indoc I assume we will have a Pinnacle 3701 or Colgan 3407 soon. Much was made about the 1500 hour rule but both crashes had more to do with training. Or lack there of.
 
Blackhawk said:
3. When I hear about 1 week indoc I assume we will have a Pinnacle 3701 or Colgan 3407 soon. Much was made about the 1500 hour rule but both crashes had more to do with training. Or lack there of.
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I think he's just referring to the company orientation when he says "indoc" -- not the entire academic training footprint. After indoc is when you'd have weeks and weeks aircraft-specific systems academics, sim training, etc.
 
Where I work, our reserve schedules are blocks of 2-5 days on, interspersed with 2-5 day periods off, with the exact numbers varying for each reserve line. During the transition between bid periods, it's possible to end up with 6 days on (the maximum allowed by our contract) or a longer block of days off, depending on how one bid ends and the next one starts.

I'm comfortably able to hold a line, and (at least where I'm based) that usually entails anywhere from 1-5 days on (which can be a mix of day trips and multi-day trips), with anywhere from 1-5 days off in between those blocks. Usually, I end up doing something pretty close to a 3-4 on/3-4 off schedule, but that changes pretty regularly.

Seniority largely determines which line of flying someone gets (the most senior person gets their first choice each bid period), but at least where I work, there isn't a huge difference in days off between different lines, but seniority lets you get lines that have things like weekends and/or holidays off. As an example, for an upcoming bid (which is five weeks long here for some odd reason) the most days off on a line is 19, and the fewest is 15.
 
Thanks for the responses guys. When I said indoc I really meant to say the entire training phase including systems academics, simulator sessions, etc.
 
Bamaaviator said:
Thanks for the responses guys. When I said indoc I really meant to say the entire training phase including systems academics, simulator sessions, etc.
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A good, conservative estimate would be around 2 to 2.5 months for most training curriculums.
 
ndakcfi said:
Where I work, our reserve schedules are blocks of 2-5 days on, interspersed with 2-5 day periods off, with the exact numbers varying for each reserve line. During the transition between bid periods, it's possible to end up with 6 days on (the maximum allowed by our contract) or a longer block of days off, depending on how one bid ends and the next one starts.

I'm comfortably able to hold a line, and (at least where I'm based) that usually entails anywhere from 1-5 days on (which can be a mix of day trips and multi-day trips), with anywhere from 1-5 days off in between those blocks. Usually, I end up doing something pretty close to a 3-4 on/3-4 off schedule, but that changes pretty regularly.

Seniority largely determines which line of flying someone gets (the most senior person gets their first choice each bid period), but at least where I work, there isn't a huge difference in days off between different lines, but seniority lets you get lines that have things like weekends and/or holidays off. As an example, for an upcoming bid (which is five weeks long here for some odd reason) the most days off on a line is 19, and the fewest is 15.
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I'm curious do you work at a regional or major carrier?
 
To give a recent perspective, I officially finished the training phase this week at a regional with my final IOE line check. I was hired in November, and had a month off between ground training and sims, and another two months off between sims and IOE. All together, the initial classroom portion was about 6 weeks from first day of indoc to end of course check.

My company payed for hotels and paid us per diem while in training. They did not pay for initial uniforms, but we get $400 a year after the first year to buy more uniforms. My initial uniform purchase was taken out of my first 10 months of paychecks in even amounts to help with the initial cost which was about $250. Other companies handle this differently. Some people do not get paid at all during training, others have to pay for their own hotels. If this is important to you, make sure that you know what the airlines provide where you are applying.

I am on reserve now, and my schedule is 5 days on reserve followed by 2-3 days off. I live in base, so this isn't too bad. I should be on reserve no more than 4 more months provided that nothing terrible happens, and I will hold a line after that. A few of my friends from class had previously worked at other airlines and were on reserve and commuting for 3-4 years. Every airline is different.
 
Bamaaviator said:
when you commute, can you commute on ANY airline? Or only a select few?
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Commuting can be a whole different topic. It will depend on the airline you work for and if there is a reciprocal jumpseat agreement between your airline and the airline you want to commute on. As far as I know most regional airlines have reciprocal agreements with everyone so it means you can commute on just about any airline...

Although even with a reciprocal jumpseat agreement you have to be careful. For example with American, there are two kinds of reciprocal agreements, a limited agreement or an unlimited agreement. If your airline is one of those with a limited agreement, it doesn't matter how many empty seats are on the airplane if the "jumpseat" is taken by another pilot whether that other pilot is physically seated in the cabin or in the cockpit, a limited jumpseater will not be accommodated and the airplane will go out with empty seats and you standing at the window watching the plane depart without you.

I remember in Albuquerque we had three New Mexico Airlines pilots come up to the gate and ask to ride to Chicago - no problem, we had 20 empty seats, we'll get you on. The agent only let one on the plane in the cabin, and we tried everything we could do to get the other two pilots on the plane, pressuring the agent, calling her supervisor, getting the chief pilot involved, refusing the move the plane, but in the end no bueno because New Mexico Airlines was only a limited jumpseat agreement, and we left two pilots at the gate with 19 empty seats and 1 empty cockpit jumpseat :bang::mad:
 
Thanks for the responses guys. All of this info is very helpful. Also, do any of you guys have families? If so, is it better to commute vs moving to your base? I would imagine that choosing to commute vs moving to base has many pros and cons to each. What do you guys think?
 
Bamaaviator said:
Got a few quick questions about regionals. I'm a commercial student in training right now, planning to obtain CFI/CFII afterwards and start instructing. I've been searching the forums but much of the information is kind of outdated so I'm looking for some more current info.

1. Commuting. Can regional pilots live wherever they want and commute to their base? I ask because if I were to go the 121 route, moving would be impractical for me because of having a family, and also due to the fact that I could not survive the first couple years on FO pay in many of the cities that airlines are based in due to higher cost of living. I know commuting can be hard, but how many pilots on here commute and have family? Is it hard the first year? Also, when you commute, can you commute on ANY airline? Or only a select few?

2. Schedules. I understand there's no "typical" schedule, but can somebody provide an example of how their schedule is in a week? how many days off do you usually get when on reserve, and after coming off reserve? I've heard 5 on 2 off, 6 on 1 off, 4 on 3 off. However this information was from like 6 years ago. Is this still the same at many regionals? Do your days off increase with seniority? If so, by how much? For more senior pilots, especially senior captains, what would schedules look like then?

3. Training. How long does indoc training last? Do airlines pay for your lodging, uniforms, etc?

Sorry for the multitude of questions, just very curious about the 121 route as I have considered it as a possibility lately. For a long time I was set on going the 135/91 route, never even really considered the airline route or gave it any thought. I guess the biggest discovery to me is the fact that 121 offers much more in terms of a schedule, seniority, pay, etc. Having some days off are very important to me. Thanks, I look forward to reading some of your responses.
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Speaking as a commuter, do not forget to factor the cost of maintaining two residences. Even if it's just a crashpad, you're still looking at a few hundred dollars per month in additional expenses. So the question is not "Can I afford to move?", it's "Can I afford to maintain two residences?".

Also, there are two kinds of commuting. Airlining and driving. Being based in, say, Chicago, does not require you to live in Chicago. There are any number of small to medium size towns within a couple hour drive that are far more affordable that you could move to.
 
Flying Saluki said:
Speaking as a commuter, do not forget to factor the cost of maintaining two residences. Even if it's just a crashpad, you're still looking at a few hundred dollars per month in additional expenses. So the question is not "Can I afford to move?", it's "Can I afford to maintain two residences?".

Also, there are two kinds of commuting. Airlining and driving. Being based in, say, Chicago, does not require you to live in Chicago. There are any number of small to medium size towns within a couple hour drive that are far more affordable that you could move to.
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In San Francisco, everyone (well, almost) is a commuter by a conventional, land-based definition of the word. Because (1) Millbrae and San Bruno suck and (2) nobody can afford to live there even if they didn't, so we either (1) BART, (2) drive or (3) fly to work. Most people think of commuting as only option (3), when in reality, (1) and (2) can be just as long and complicated in large metropolitan areas.

I will say that options (1) and (2) are better than option (3), on average.

When I was based in LAX, I lived in Camarillo. That's a commute too.
 
I understand. I'm just in a position where I would prefer to stay where I currently live and commute (fly) to my base instead of moving to base, or moving to an area near my base. My wife is a teacher, and moving would require her to obtain certification in the new state. Depending on the state, she could be required to take a few college courses to get certified in the new state. I'd prefer not to mess up her career plans when she worked hard to get to where she is. Also don't wanna deal with the costs of hiring a moving company to move my family and all our junk to a new place and uproot their lives. I would much rather just deal with maintaining 2 residences and commute (fly) vs moving. What do you guys think? Is this rational? Or am I being naive?
 
Bamaaviator said:
I understand. I'm just in a position where I would prefer to stay where I currently live and commute (fly) to my base instead of moving to base, or moving to an area near my base. My wife is a teacher, and moving would require her to obtain certification in the new state. Depending on the state, she could be required to take a few college courses to get certified in the new state. I'd prefer not to mess up her career plans when she worked hard to get to where she is. Also don't wanna deal with the costs of hiring a moving company to move my family and all our junk to a new place and uproot their lives. I would much rather just deal with maintaining 2 residences and commute (fly) vs moving. What do you guys think? Is this rational? Or am I being naive?
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I think you're being pretty reasonable.


1) Don't move for a regional job. Once you move, they'll either close your base or open a new base and displace you to it. Regionals are fickle and unstable.

2) Try to find a company that is based at or near where you live. Don't chase an upgrade time or equipment type. Turning yourself into a cross-country commuter because some place will theoretically upgrade you 6 months quicker than some other company is a really dumb thing to do.

3) If you end up with more than one company that you could work for, pick the one that pays more.


You're applying to be an FO at a regional airline. By definition, this is not a "good" job. Therefore, do not sacrifice any measurable quality-of-life issues for the job. The best thing about a regional airline job is the days you don't go to work. Maximize these through avoiding an unnecessary commute.
 
I large number of airline plots commute. I'd venture to say the majority commute.
I too, enjoy where I live, have all my family here etc..there are also a handful of major airline guys who live here as well. They have all commuted to work, two of them for 25 plus years! They all agree that it can be stressful at times, but the majority of it is not bad, and if you have the right mindset, it just becomes part of the job.
One thing I look at when everyone preaches "don't commute" is, what about when you get that major job? Gonna pack up and drag the fam elsewhere? What if that base closes? Yet another move? I think that would eventually be worse on the family than just staying put and commuting.
 
badtransam97 said:
One thing I look at when everyone preaches "don't commute" is, what about when you get that major job? Gonna pack up and drag the fam elsewhere? What if that base closes? Yet another move? I think that would eventually be worse on the family than just staying put and commuting.
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- Yes, only if necessary. I'm hoping for a 'major' job that has a base here.

- Yes, probably.

I had a Delta A330 Captain in my jumpseat riding from Reno to Seattle one time. The guy only commuted once a month. His statement was "commuting is no way to spend a career."
 
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