717 question

S

Screaming_Emu

Well-Known Member
To any of the 717 drivers out there (though I think we only have one) or anyone who might know the answer.

I always see the airtran 717s taxi with their flaps out (to some reduced setting) after landing until they're pulling into the gate. Why is that?

I know in the CRJ-200s to reduce the number of flap failures the flaps were kept at flaps 8, but I think we stopped doing that.

Thanks, just curious about it.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
To any of the 717 drivers out there (though I think we only have one) or anyone who might know the answer.

I always see the airtran 717s taxi with their flaps out (to some reduced setting) after landing until they're pulling into the gate. Why is that?

I know in the CRJ-200s to reduce the number of flap failures the flaps were kept at flaps 8, but I think we stopped doing that.

Thanks, just curious about it.
Click to expand...

The tires are so close to the engines that Boeing recommends keeping a bit of flaps down to prevent the tires from kicking FOD up into the engines. The flaps block anything from kicking up high enough to go into the intake. So, we keep them at flaps 18 until we're pulling into the gate.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The tires are so close to the engines that Boeing recommends keeping a bit of flaps down to prevent the tires from kicking FOD up into the engines. The flaps block anything from kicking up high enough to go into the intake. So, we keep them at flaps 18 until we're pulling into the gate.
Click to expand...

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the quick response!
 
If you're taxiing in with Flaps 18 then I guess the flaps are slightly down but not fully - I thought taxiing in with full flaps was a hijack signal, pretty poor one if you ask me, I can't remember what's in the AIM.

Is there any difference between thr 717 and doing the same for the MD-80 / DC-9?

Alex.
 
Hey ATN or anyone else. I am just curious as the B717 is essentially a DC-9 and the 9 drivers that I know say the DC-9 doesn't have that procedure. I am wondering if the new engine has something to do with it. Do the 717 and 9 have gravel deflectors installed?
 
ahw01 said:
If you're taxiing in with Flaps 18 then I guess the flaps are slightly down but not fully - I thought taxiing in with full flaps was a hijack signal, pretty poor one if you ask me, I can't remember what's in the AIM.

Is there any difference between thr 717 and doing the same for the MD-80 / DC-9?

Alex.
Click to expand...

I believe flaps as a signal of hijack are no longer used.
 
ahw01 said:
If you're taxiing in with Flaps 18 then I guess the flaps are slightly down but not fully - I thought taxiing in with full flaps was a hijack signal, pretty poor one if you ask me, I can't remember what's in the AIM.
Click to expand...

Most controllers still know this signal, but it's not really taught anymore. It caused some problems because people would forget to put up the flaps.

Bandit_Driver said:
Hey ATN or anyone else. I am just curious as the B717 is essentially a DC-9 and the 9 drivers that I know say the DC-9 doesn't have that procedure. I am wondering if the new engine has something to do with it. Do the 717 and 9 have gravel deflectors installed?
Click to expand...

The 717 is basically the same fuselage as a DC-9-30, but yeah, the engines are very different. The JT8s were replaced with Roll Royce engines with huge intakes. The JT8 intakes were much smaller, so most stuff kicked up would go under the lip of the engine intake. Not so on the RR engines, because the intake lip is much further down, so FOD could get kicked inside. The gravel deflectors on our planes have been removed, because they caused mx issues, they were heavy, and slush would get caked in there like crazy. They weren't worth it.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The tires are so close to the engines that Boeing recommends keeping a bit of flaps down to prevent the tires from kicking FOD up into the engines. The flaps block anything from kicking up high enough to go into the intake. So, we keep them at flaps 18 until we're pulling into the gate.
Click to expand...

I absolutely hated that procedure. Way too much distraction while the plane is taxing into a congested ramp/gate. My choice would be to pull them up after landing like every other plane or, wait until the parking checklist to retract them.
 
Capt. Caucasian said:
I absolutely hated that procedure. Way too much distraction while the plane is taxing into a congested ramp/gate. My choice would be to pull them up after landing like every other plane or, wait until the parking checklist to retract them.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree.

Can they just be placed in the takeoff setting after clearing the runway? What is a normal (for lack of a better word) takeoff setting for you guys?

-mini
 
There's no such thing as a normal takeoff setting. The 717 has what's called Dial-a-Flap, which lets you set any flap setting between 0 and 20. The Aerodata performance software figures out the exact flap setting that will give best performance based on what de-rate you're using, and you set the flap dial for that, which moves the detent. Typical settings would be 5, 13, or 18, but I've seen all kinds of stuff in between.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
There's no such thing as a normal takeoff setting.
Click to expand...
Which is why I said "for lack of a better word". :rolleyes:

Typical settings would be 5, 13, or 18, but I've seen all kinds of stuff in between.
Click to expand...
Typical. That's what I was looking for, thanks!

So rather than move them up when in a tight area trying to park, maybe leaving them at 18 might be a better decision? Then just set them for t/o on the before taxi checklist.

....not that I really care. Just thinking along the same lines as CC and maybe there's an easier way. Maybe not.

*Edit*
I never really paid attention before, since that's usually the time when I'm trying to wake up and figure out what I'm doing on an airplane but how late do you guys wait to bring them up? Is it when you enter the ramp or literally as you're pulling in to the gate?

-mini
 
minitour said:
Which is why I said "for lack of a better word". :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I wasn't being a smartass, just pointing out that the next flap setting could be just about anything.

So rather than move them up when in a tight area trying to park, maybe leaving them at 18 might be a better decision? Then just set them for t/o on the before taxi checklist.
Click to expand...

I think the concern might be that guys would see the flaps already set at 18 during the checklist and not double check that that's the right setting. If they're at zero, you know that you haven't set them.

I never really paid attention before, since that's usually the time when I'm trying to wake up and figure out what I'm doing on an airplane but how late do you guys wait to bring them up? Is it when you enter the ramp or literally as you're pulling in to the gate?
Click to expand...

Most captains call for it right as they're making the turn into the gate.
 
Thanks for asking this.... I always wondered about it and figured it was someone's desk justification or something of the sort. Go figure that there actually is a reason for having them still extended. ;)

Makes me twitch seeing the flaps still extended on taxi in!
 
Who flies the 717? Would love to fly that or a nice late '60s DC9 :)

Where do people do training, will Northwest still continue to train pilots, or will people go subcontracted to HPA/PanAm etc?

Alex.
 
AirTran and Hawaiian are the only remaining airlines in the US that fly the 717. Midwest used to fly them, but we all know what happened to that.

Training for us (AirTran) is done here in ATL. I'm not sure where Hawaiian does it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top