61.129 and PCATD

[Blackhawk]

I've done several commercial add-ons in the past year but I realized I have not done an initial since the change in part 61. Just want to confirm that we can use the PCATD set up as a MEL toward the total experience (250 hours), of flight time for someone going for their initial CMEL.

(i) Permitted credit for use of a flight simulator or flight training device. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, an applicant who has not accomplished the training required by this section in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter may:
(i) Credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane or powered-lift rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane or powered-lift category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought; and

I know this sounds like a stupid question and the regulation seems quite clear... but I would hate to send a guy up for a checkride with PCATD counting toward total time and find it does not count due to some LOI.

 

[Xiph]

From what I see, no.

61.129 doesn't refer to PCATDs, only to FTDs and flight simulators, so unless your PCATD meets the requirements for an FTD and is qualified as such, you're out of luck there. AC61-126, which deals with FTDs, says that you can use them for instrument training, but doesn't say anything about commercial training, so no luck there either.

AC61-136 does say that AATDs are okay to count toward commercial training, so that might be something to look at, but the requirements for an AATD seem to go above and beyond what all the PCATDs I've seen (and, admittedly, that's not many) have had.

 

[Blackhawk]

From what I see, no.

61.129 doesn't refer to PCATDs, only to FTDs and flight simulators, so unless your PCATD meets the requirements for an FTD and is qualified as such, you're out of luck there. AC61-126, which deals with FTDs, says that you can use them for instrument training, but doesn't say anything about commercial training, so no luck there either.

AC61-136 does say that AATDs are okay to count toward commercial training, so that might be something to look at, but the requirements for an AATD seem to go above and beyond what all the PCATDs I've seen (and, admittedly, that's not many) have had.

As a blanket statement this is not true. There are some PCATDs out there that are approved for 61.129- such as Elites iGater G500 PCATD.

 

[Xiph]

As a blanket statement this is not true. There are some PCATDs out there that are approved for 61.129- such as Elites iGater G500 PCATD.

Like I said, I haven't come across too many PCATDs in my time, and the ones I've seen haven't been all that good. It doesn't surprise me that there are others out there that are better.

I guess it goes back to the question of whether the specific PCATD you intend to use is approved for what you want to use it for, though it does strike me as odd that a PCATD or AATD might be useable to get 50 hours toward a commercial certificate while an FTD would not. But that's the FAA for you. :dunno:

 

[Blackhawk]

Like I said, I haven't come across too many PCATDs in my time, and the ones I've seen haven't been all that good. It doesn't surprise me that there are others out there that are better.

I guess it goes back to the question of whether the specific PCATD you intend to use is approved for what you want to use it for, though it does strike me as odd that a PCATD or AATD might be useable to get 50 hours toward a commercial certificate while an FTD would not. But that's the FAA for you. :dunno:

You got me in the right direction. I flipped over the sheet that explained what could be counted and it listed other PCATDs that could be counted toward the 50 hours. Just not sure why some count while others don't.

 

[innovator152]

there should be sheet(s) of paper posted in sight in the same room as your PCATD, AATD, FTD, that says FAA approves the use towards certain ratings (part 141 or 61). also check out the manufacturers website, you might find something there.

 

[Blackhawk]

there should be sheet(s) of paper posted in sight in the same room as your PCATD, AATD, FTD, that says FAA approves the use towards certain ratings (part 141 or 61). also check out the manufacturers website, you might find something there.

There are... I did not flip it over to read both pages