6 Minute Clearance Release to Void Time

[scott_l]

Taking off from Mesquite, TX perfect VFR day my student and I were practicing picking up a IFR clearance from an uncontrolled airport. Called Lockheed Martin on the phone and was told to contact Regional Departure's phone # for any metroplex area departures. We called Regional Departure and were given our clearance. The clearance gave us 6 minutes before our void time to which I asked for a longer time which he then came back and granted us 15 minutes till takeoff. We were ready by our void time but landing VFR traffic caused us to take off 45 seconds from our void time. They also advised us to contact if not off by 5 minutes after the void time. So, we departed and once clear of the area switched to departure at almost exactly our advise if not off by time. After contacting departure they asked us why we did not call sooner.

So a few questions:
Why contact the regional departure and not Lockheed? If we did that wouldn't it just be easier to call the controlling agency for the airspace every time?
Why were we only given six minutes? In the past I have been asked how long we needed and given a release and void time.
Is the void time the time we need to contact the controlling agency by or is that our "advise if not off by" time?

Once I explained we had VFR traffic landing the controller dropped it and had us change to center but I found the exchange interesting.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

So a few questions:
Why contact the regional departure and not Lockheed? If we did that wouldn't it just be easier to call the controlling agency for the airspace every time?
Why were we only given six minutes? In the past I have been asked how long we needed and given a release and void time.
Is the void time the time we need to contact the controlling agency by or is that our "advise if not off by" time?

Once I explained we had VFR traffic landing the controller dropped it and had us change to center but I found the exchange interesting.

1) Absolutely! I ALWAYS ask for a phone number for the local control agency if I'm going into an uncontrolled field from which I'll need to pick up an IFR. They never seem to hesitate to give it, so why not bypass the middle man.

Up until a few years ago, I'd "commute" in our company's Cirrus a couple times a month. EVERY SINGLE TIME I needed an IFR out of the uncontrolled field near my house, Lockheed would spend 10 minutes trying to figure out which control agency to call to get my clearance. It got to the point that I'd include the facility name in my request; "Hey, it's Cirrus 123SR, need to pick up my clearance with NORFOLK APPROACH out of xxx to KORF."

2) Six minutes???! Ha! We get three minutes out of JYO (8 NW of IAD). Just do your best to be ready; both in the cockpit, and traffic in the pattern. In the busier metroplex areas (DC, NY, DFW, etc etc), the amount of time between clearance and void will decrease. Off time is actually the time your wheels leave the ground.

 

[queeno]

in busy terminal airspace we dont like to block airspace for more than a few minutes. as for FSS after LM took over they are useless from an ATC point, id rather have the pilot call direct and i have even told FSS to have the pilot call us direct if they have a cell phone. it allowes me to better manage the airspace.

in chicago unless its a mid shift youll never get a 30 minute void, air space is too busy to be blocking portions for even 10 minutes that could delay other aircraft or airports if your not ready. normally in chicago we will tell you not to call for your clearence untill your at the rwy and ready to depart right away. then you will only get a 1 to 2 minute window to be airborne.you must be airborne by the void time but you should contact ATC ASAP. the call if not airborne time is the time we start looking for you which would include a call to the airport to see if the aircraft is on the ramp or a smoking hole at the end of the rwy. if not than we must assume you are airborne and have to protect the airspace for 30 minutes from all points along your route of flight untill we find you.

if you dont have a cell phone and we have to relay through FSS we still dont block the airspace for more than a few minutes. lets say you call at XX00 and say you need 30 minutes youll get a clrn with a release time of XX30 and a void of XX35 with a call no later than XX45 which allows us to use that airspace till XX29.

 

[scott_l]

Thanks for the answers. I guess it would have been nice to have a release time that wasn't current time in my situation and given a couple minute window I'm sure we could have been off (except for the 4 mile straight in skyhawk).

 

[adk]

You can always tell them "we'll be ready in 10 minutes."

 

[Old Dominion Flyer]

Six minutes???! Ha! We get three minutes out of JYO

I remember those days all too well.
Clearance Delivery: N123AB, you are released. Clearance void if not off by 1650. If not off by 1650, contact clearance on 118.55 no later than 1655. Time now 1647 and three quarters.

If there's a skyhawk on final when you're released, you're either calling for a new release time or someone is going around. There was a Gulfstream that didn't seem to mind causing go-arounds.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

If there's a skyhawk on final when you're released, you're either calling for a new release time or someone is going around. There was a Gulfstream that didn't seem to mind causing go-arounds.

There were many times when I'd beg and plead for someone to extend a downwind or let me be #1 for departure. Thankfully, I never had to throw any elbows over the radio.

 

[MikeD]

If there's a skyhawk on final when you're released, you're either calling for a new release time or someone is going around. There was a Gulfstream that didn't seem to mind causing go-arounds.

There were many times when I'd beg and plead for someone to extend a downwind or let me be #1 for departure. Thankfully, I never had to throw any elbows over the radio.

If at all possible, I would always give way or make any reasonable accomodation to an IFR trying to release for departure, when I was VFR. I never minded going around for a closed pattern or keeping the runup area clear to allow someone to go by, as everyone I ever dealt with in that situation was very thankful for the courtesy. And the few times in my career that I was ever in that same situation, the same courtesy was extended to me.

Being a good neighbor should always pay off in aviation; whether being in need, or whether having the ability to assist someone with a need.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

1) Absolutely! I ALWAYS ask for a phone number for the local control agency if I'm going into an uncontrolled field from which I'll need to pick up an IFR. They never seem to hesitate to give it, so why not bypass the middle man.

Up until a few years ago, I'd "commute" in our company's Cirrus a couple times a month. EVERY SINGLE TIME I needed an IFR out of the uncontrolled field near my house, Lockheed would spend 10 minutes trying to figure out which control agency to call to get my clearance. It got to the point that I'd include the facility name in my request; "Hey, it's Cirrus 123SR, need to pick up my clearance with NORFOLK APPROACH out of xxx to KORF."

2) Six minutes???! Ha! We get three minutes out of JYO (8 NW of IAD). Just do your best to be ready; both in the cockpit, and traffic in the pattern. In the busier metroplex areas (DC, NY, DFW, etc etc), the amount of time between clearance and void will decrease. Off time is actually the time your wheels leave the ground.

I've gotten two minutes in SoCal before. True story. Good thing I was all set when I picked up my phone...

 

[boondr]

Depends on the situation but 6 minutes is plenty of time if you are ready to go when you call. That's why we always do '"hold for release, advise when #1 and ready to depart.

Blocking airspace while you do your walk around, run-ups, taxi , etc. is just plain innefficient.

 

[boondr]

I've gotten two minutes in SoCal before. True story. Good thing I was all set when I picked up my phone...

I've given 2 min voids more time than I can remember but I always preceded it with a "can you comply, because otherwise you are waiting for an inbound to cancel."