441 Crash

CK

Well-Known Member
I was a little nervious when I read the title. I have a lot of friends that fly 441s. Then I saw the N# and my heart sank for a second. It was N441HK, I know a guy who flies N441HF. I did not know the guy who was killed though. It is the first 441 fatal accident in quite a while.

RIP,

Alex.
 

flyinkibblez

New Member
I knew this man. His name as written in the articles is Doug Sharratt. He was one of the nicest and most meticulous pilots i had the chance of meeting. Doug flew out of the FBO our charter operation is part of. We flew up to sunriver today to pick up his family, a very sad day for everyone who knew him at our airport.

His accident brings to face the dangers that we all take for granted as pilots, and how fast something like this can happen to anyone.

Doug will be greatly missed. Our prayers go out to his wife and all his children. Please send a prayer out for them.
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
Am I the only one who has a problem with the second picture? The guy on the left is standing there with his hands in his pockets! Fire crews might have arrived too late, but there were two people there (plus the photographer) who were there before the plane was engulfed.

This reminds me of the footage of the old man who was run over by a car and nobody come over to help him.
 

darrenf

resident denizen
Am I the only one who has a problem with the second picture? The guy on the left is standing there with his hands in his pockets! Fire crews might have arrived too late, but there were two people there (plus the photographer) who were there before the plane was engulfed.

This reminds me of the footage of the old man who was run over by a car and nobody come over to help him.
You can't get a real idea about what those people are doing from a single still photograph. I would be willing to bet they intended to help just based on their proximity to the aircraft.
 

Michael95U

Well-Known Member
Am I the only one who has a problem with the second picture? The guy on the left is standing there with his hands in his pockets! Fire crews might have arrived too late, but there were two people there (plus the photographer) who were there before the plane was engulfed.

This reminds me of the footage of the old man who was run over by a car and nobody come over to help him.
I had to look twice at that picture. It is sickening. As a former lifeguard and trained in advanced wilderness first aid, I just always have reacted first in those situations and thought about it later (not that I have been at the scene of a plane crash, but I have been there for potential drownings, car crashes, heart attacks, etc). The three of them could have easily ran right up to the aircraft to see if they could pull the pilot from the wreckage. Real sad that they would just stand there and watch (and even take pictures BEFORE the airplane was engulfed in flames).
 

SeanD

Well-Known Member
I had to look twice at that picture. It is sickening. As a former lifeguard and trained in advanced wilderness first aid, I just always have reacted first in those situations and thought about it later (not that I have been at the scene of a plane crash, but I have been there for potential drownings, car crashes, heart attacks, etc). The three of them could have easily ran right up to the aircraft to see if they could pull the pilot from the wreckage. Real sad that they would just stand there and watch (and even take pictures BEFORE the airplane was engulfed in flames).


I agree unless it was obvious that the pilots were already dead.
 

MQAAord

Scheherazade
Staff member
Unless you were there in person, it's almost impossible to tell the entire circumstances from a still photograph.
 

roundout

Bus Driver
If you look carefully at the second photo, there is a piece of wreckage on fire on the ground under where the rear exit door is located. If I'm one of the guys standing there with a fire already burning, you bet your ass I'm not going over there to try and see if anybody survived.
 

Acadia

Well-Known Member
If you look carefully at the second photo, there is a piece of wreckage on fire on the ground under where the rear exit door is located. If I'm one of the guys standing there with a fire already burning, you bet your ass I'm not going over there to try and see if anybody survived.
Absolutely. The first rule of rescue work it to survey the scene to prevent additional injuries or deaths. With fuel on the ground and visible fire, entering that aircraft would likely be suicide.
 

970Flyer

Well-Known Member
Last winter I was driving down a road at 3 a.m. in white-out conditions. I came across a car in a ditch that was on fire. My first thought was for anyone that may be inside. My second thought was that the car could blow up at any time. My third though was of my pregnant wife asleep at home. I grabbed my flashlight and looked down the road a bit- I could see footprints in the snow walking away. I called 911 and the cops were there in less than two minutes. They picked up the drunk too.

It raised the question of what I would have done had I not seen those footprints. I still struggle with the answer. Could I live with myself if someone would have died because of my inaction? What if I had approached the car, it was empty, and it blew up? My wife would have ended up being a widow.

How the people in this picture managed to just stand there like that is beyond me. I was so jacked after the car incident that I couldn't drive away for 20 minutes and I could hardly stand up. I was shaking that bad.

Something to think about.....
 

TXaviator

Well-Known Member
If you look carefully at the second photo, there is a piece of wreckage on fire on the ground under where the rear exit door is located. If I'm one of the guys standing there with a fire already burning, you bet your ass I'm not going over there to try and see if anybody survived.
agreed. and also a "yeah that" about it possibly being very obvious that the pilot was DOA.
 

WacoFan

Bigly
It is a really stunning thing to see an airplane crash right in front of you. If you are a pilot, I think it is actually more stunning than if you are a non-pilot believe it or not. Also, if you are a pilot, you instinctively know whether it was fatal or not - even before the plane hits the ground. That is the bad part, you can see an accident developing, you see the plane start to go down, and prior to the "thud" you know the guy is going to die. I've seen a couple - nothing that could have been done, ran over anyway, no fire but I left the guy be, he was moving and making noise but clearly was going to die. The airplane (C-172) was upside down with with him pinned. No way to get him out or anyway to provide comfort. In the two minutes it took for fire/rescue to arrive he was dead.

It is hard to tell from a photograph what they were doing - and like I said, you know if it is fatal or not by watching the accident sequence occur. Given the picture of this crash above - the 441 about to make impact - I am sure I would not have broken any speed records getting to the plane, it is quite obvious what the outcome was going to be.
 

Itchy

Well-Known Member
Not trying to be a a$$ here, but how did you "know he was going to die"?

I would really only know that about Sadam right when he was bitching at the guys with a noose in his face. Other than that, some people have made it out of some pretty grim situations. You obviously were right, but is it possible that you might not have known?
 

WacoFan

Bigly
Not trying to be a a$$ here, but how did you "know he was going to die"?

I would really only know that about Sadam right when he was bitching at the guys with a noose in his face. Other than that, some people have made it out of some pretty grim situations. You obviously were right, but is it possible that you might not have known?
The ones I have seen were straight down - one impacted nose down from about three hundred feet. This was a Culver Cadet that spun in after a low pass and abrupt pull-up leading to an accelerated stall/spin. The Culver Cadet is an all wood, small, two-place machine. When he entered the spin at low altitude it was pretty obvious that he was going to hit the ground and die.

The other was a mid-air. A C-150 overtook a C-172, prop sliced into the area behind the cabin but forward of the tail, the tail of the C-172 departed the airplane about 150-200ft above the ground. After the 172's tail came off, the airplane pitched up violently (80 degrees or so) then pitched straight down and hit the ground.

Did I know thatthese guys were going to die - yes. Nine times out of ten you do not survive that kind of crash - straight in from a couple hundred feet. The wooden Cadet simply had the engine push into the cockpit and the pilot (who was a friend of mine). The C-172 didn't have the same encroachment, but at impact I saw the guy slam forward into the panel as the shoulder harnesses broke.

These facts did not deter me from running to the scene on the off chance that something could be done. If you look at the picture of the 441 about to impact, do you REALLY think someone is going to survive that? .032 alluminum is not going to provide much impact protection in this scenario.
 
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