31 years old at ATP

[DL31082]

Sounds like someone has success envy.

I say, if you earned it- fly it. That is what I plan to do with mine (when and if of course.)

I agree with this somewhat. If your business is doing well then fly the jet, but from the sound of things they are about to let instructors go. Maybe it's time to put the jet up, or at least limit it to the needs of the business. No more just for fun flight. Specially since they do absolutely zero instruction in it anymore. You have to do what makes sense for the business, or you might not have that business in the future.

 

[eclipse]

If he wants to cut every instructor loose except himself and fly his jet every other day, it isnt anyone's business but his. (we would all think it was stupid, of course.) but it isnt anyone's business.

 

[Clocks]

In my opinion one of the benefits of the career program was getting done quick then teaching at ATP. I actually went to a university, then taught at ATP as an outside hire, but that became harder as the airlines stopped hiring, then impossible, and now they can't even hire their own instructors.

So the question becomes...where are you going to go in 90/150 days (career or PPL+career) when you finish at ATP? Not only are the airlines not hiring, but the flight schools aren't either, and what's that going to do to the competition for those right seat corporate-type gigs?

Of course everything could change 6 months from now, it's always a roll of the dice, maybe you'll get in at the beginning of the next wave...maybe you'll finish and there wont be a job this side of the pacific for you. But the decision becomes a lot harder when you realize you might not even be able to CFI when you're done.

 

[DL31082]

If he wants to cut every instructor loose except himself and fly his jet every other day, it isnt anyone's business but his. (we would all think it was stupid, of course.) but it isnt anyone's business.

That would be a brilliant business move. It may not be anybody elses business but that won't stop people from having an opinion on what they are doing. I have some friends that work for that company. The last thing that I want to see is them let go, while management flies a CJ1 just for fun. The job of the officers of a business is to make money for that business by making good decisions. Spending thousands to fly an airplane just for fun is stupid.

 

[DL31082]

Yes I know your going to defend everything ATP does, you tend to do that on here. So at this point lets agree to disagree.

 

[determined2fly]

I'm 31 y.o. and looking at going to ATP or a like school in the 4th quarter next year (I'll be 32). My reason for going to an intense school such as ATP is the total immersion. I've thought of the FBO route but I have so much going on (work, investments, family, etc.) that I really need to buckle down and immerse myself in aviation. I have 150 hours right now and got my PPL several years ago.

I'm not sure where aviation will take me. I think my ideal situation would be where I could get a couple SR22s and run a program that introduces kids to aviation. That being said, I would mind flying corporate but would probably stay away from the airlines.

Wanted to see what guidance anyone might have for me. I appreciate it in advance.

Fly safe!

:banghead:

wow! talk about pressure. Im 33 yrs old right now, ive been on this journey to become a pilot for awhile now, its the college thing thats kicking me in the nuts...never liked school but know I have to finish it to appease those hiring at most flying jobs. I have been eagerly anticipating my start at ATP becuase of the sense of urgency to get the training and all my ratings. The more I read these blogs, the more discouraging it gets to go to ATP. I know insturctors at local FBO that have been CFI 4-5 years and are much younger than me. I don't have time to be teaching that long. Ill probably be 35 after I finish ATP if I do decide to go.:banghead:

 

[killbilly]

The job of the officers of a business is to make money for that business by making good decisions. Spending thousands to fly an airplane just for fun is stupid.

I've spent about eight grand over the last year to fly an airplane for fun.

Guess I'm a moron.

Righteous indignation. You haz it.

 

[wrxpilot]

I've never done anything having to do with ATP. But FWIW, it may make a lot of sense to spend a year or two working on your ratings. If you are able to study independently and do a good job of researching FBOs to use, it will be cheaper than ATP. But more importantly, you will be exposed to a lot of people that could get you a job somewhere down the line. If you want to go corporate, making connections is very important.

 

[DL31082]

I've spent about eight grand over the last year to fly an airplane for fun.

Guess I'm a moron.

Righteous indignation. You haz it.

You got me there, but there is a difference when you are paying for it or when your business is footing the bill. Specially when your business on a downward trend. I fly an airplane for fun everyday, but I get paid for it.

 

[eight_baller]

the GOOD:
-Fast Track
-Multi Time
-Total Immersion
-Awesome sims
-Lots of Locations
-Part 61
-housing included (if you want it)

the BAD:
-a little pricey
-customer service depends on the day
-some instructors suck

The BOTTOM LINE:
-you get your certificates & ratings
-its fast and quick (so be on top of your game)
-It IS a BUSINESS, AND a flight school. Expect some penny-pinching
-it works.

to the guy who said you're taught for a checkride..... you're kinda right
you obviously don't understand what a "self-study" program is, meaning you're responsible for most the information. NOW, the instructor shouldn't hang you out to dry, but YOU need to do ALOT of your own research. You can't expect an instructor to hold your hand... not to mention, the checkride is NOTHING like REAL flying. It is a bit of a game, and you need to know the rules of the game.

Every place has its pros/cons. Personally, I went to the Stuart, FL location. 90 days. finished in 100. give a 2 week grace period. (**** happens, what can you do? roll with it!) Let's put it this way.... If I had $60,000 more, I'd sign up for another 90 days! Stuart was GREAT!

I commonly find that the "ATP bashers" are usually people who washed out of the program, or mouthed off about not getting treated like a king. In other words, became a nuisance to ATP. Nobody likes a "b****er" and like i said, its a business, so they are in it for the $$$... so this "b****er" left or washed out and didn't get ALL his money back, now he complains online.

REMEMBER: everybody else forked out $60k, just like YOU (if you decide to go) so don't expect special "I"M THE CUSTOMER" treatment, just be cool, and realize "Hey, I'm here to get my stuff done!

PM me if you have any other Q's. I like ATP, but I'm not gonna feed you BS, they aren't perfect!

Good luck on your decision!

 

[LoadMasterC141]

For the vast majority of ATP students, they come knowing this will be a fast program where alot of effort will be required on their part to succeed. However, some people seem to come into the program thinking everything will be handed to them on a silver platter. Often, they are the same people who had everything handed to them on a silver platter their whole life.

Whether you go to an FBO or an academy, have a great instructor or a crappy one, noone can force you to learn. Nor can they spoon feed it all to you. The individual must take responsibility to study and learn.

I have seen people come here expecting to be given every grace because "they are the customer". Well guess what, I was the customer when I paid an outrageous sum to go to college. Think I could go up to my professor and say "Hey I just really did not get to study this weekend, can I go ahead and take that test some other time?" No I did not.

I put a passionate effort into giving my students every bit of attention I can, but when they blow off studying, I hold THEM accountable. Some grow from it, others don't.

As far as self study...maybe at Stuart, but there is very structured ground training here. Any course requires studying as well, but new material is first introduced by an instructor.

 

[BillH]

I am glad I went to ATP. I am glad that I have the multi engine time. I just want to get this 50,000$ gorilla off my back.
Right now, any flying job is hard to get, you better know some people. The key is being ready and being in front of the next hiring wave. You have some time. Even when the hiring picks up again, most of them will be furloughed 121 pilots. At least that will free up a lot of CFI jobs for the newer guys. Damn industry cycles...

 

[eclipse]

Keep your chin up, gang. It wont be long. There are rumors of hirings in the near future.

 

[kfour]

This thread is pretty silly

 

[eight_baller]

As far as self study...maybe at Stuart, but there is very structured ground training here. Any course requires studying as well, but new material is first introduced by an instructor.

Well of course there is ground school! haha, but when an instructor has a couple other students, It is hard for him to spoon feed everything to that one particular student who doesn't put ANY effort into it, himself/herself.

 

[LoadMasterC141]

Precisely.

 

[DE727UPS]

"I commonly find that the "ATP bashers" are......."

Well, I don't mean to bash, only give my opinion. But, I did two ratings at ATP. I'm highly negative about going from PPL to CFI-MEI in 90 days and going on to teach the next newb. I've been a CFI since 1980 and am a 757 Capt today, but that's what I think.

 

[BillH]

Oh, and far as age goes, I was 27 when I went in, couple of friends that were even older, one in his 40's. Even if your 30, you still have potentially 30+ years of a flying career in 121, even more outside of 121.

 

[JoelT]

"I commonly find that the "ATP bashers" are......."

Well, I don't mean to bash, only give my opinion. But, I did two ratings at ATP. I'm highly negative about going from PPL to CFI-MEI in 90 days and going on to teach the next newb. I've been a CFI since 1980 and am a 757 Capt today, but that's what I think.

I did all of my ratings except private at ATP. I am now a 767 FO at the worlds largest airline, hold five type ratings, as a CFI and check airman I have a 100% pass rate and, my daughter has nominated me as father of the year.

ATP is a fine school and pilots that got their ratings there or at an FBO or a university are no different from one another. The only variable is whether the student flew every day each week or a few days a week. Nothing more or less.

The above poster has his own personal issues that he needs to work out with himself. For some reason he chooses to take them out on ATP grads though.


Don't click here to see how I became a Delta pilot
http://my.ego.is.not.that.big.com

 

[skatergeek]

ATP's program is designed to crank out first officer candidates for the airlines, not well-rounded pilots. In exchange for a huge sum of money, you'll be taught the bare minimum to pass a specific examiner's checkride and no more. No emergency upset training, no mountain flying exposure, nothing that isn't in line with what works for the airlines.

I agree.

Yes... even including mountainous terrain, cold weather ops, busy Class B, C, and D airpspace, and even podunk strips in between

I have friends that instruct at ATP, and most of the CFI's there DO NOT know how to do a VFR bravo transition...they say "why do you need to know that".

Nearly all of our CFI students get their AGI and IGI.

That’s is great that they go out of their way to better themselves...but...getting an AGI or IGI is simply doing the CFI and CFII written again...no practical involved, and it takes about 30 min for each test.

Tomorrow, the 44 year old "check ride passer" is going to be dispatched out into the world flying a 2008 $500,000 Complex Multi-Engine Aircraft. He and his flight partner will head to Phoenix, probably by way of Roswell. EGAD! They may even jump a mountain or so...and with no Auto-Pilot!

I actually really like that portion of the program. I'm sure it is a GREAT experience but, I have had a few incidents with those students. They vary from cutting me off on short final to turning crosswind right at me when they were told to fly runway heading. Do those PA44's have autopilot?

Anyways, I don't really have a problem with ATP, except they produce the most "starry-eyed kids" with MASSIVE SJS... "I'm up to 500 hours now...I'm so sick of instructing, I should be flying a jet." No joke that is what a ATP CFI told me when I was talking to him a few weeks ago.

I do have a legit question to all you ATP people out there. What is the selling point now? With the current state of the industry, where are all the grads going and how are you attracting new customers?