3000 feet?

fisher37

fisher37

Well-Known Member
I was cleared to land on a runway today while another aircraft was still on the runway further down the runway. I questioned the controller because the other a/c was still rolling out as I was about to touch down. She told me I was still cleared to land.

I was then told by another instructor that as long as there is 3000 feet between you and the next aircraft everything is okay. Where can I find this regulation? Is it in the FAR/AIM? I looked fairly hard and could not find it!

Any help on this subject is appreciated!!
 
fisher37 said:
I was cleared to land on a runway today while another aircraft was still on the runway further down the runway. I questioned the controller because the other a/c was still rolling out as I was about to touch down. She told me I was still cleared to land.

I was then told by another instructor that as long as there is 3000 feet between you and the next aircraft everything is okay. Where can I find this regulation? Is it in the FAR/AIM? I looked fairly hard and could not find it!

Any help on this subject is appreciated!!
Click to expand...

You can find your answer in 7110.65T 3-10-3. SAME RUNWAY SEPARATION


It's a bit long to post here, but essentially your instructor is correct for many conditions.
 
In the AF, depending on the MAJCOM and base, we can have multiple fighter-type aircraft on the runway at the same time, with 6k separation between dissimilar and 3k separation similar, under RRS..or Reduced Runway Separation, using the cold/hot sides of the runway. So it wasn't uncommon to see one jet landing, and 2 rolling-out downfield on a 12,000 foot runway.

Problem is one gets too used to seeing this in fighters (me), gets lacksadasical seeing other aircraft on the runway, and gets surprised when they fly civilian and are racing down short final..."my spacing looks fine with the guy ahead of me..".

Tower: "Cessna XX, prepare for go around." "Cessna XX, go around, make right closed traffic."

Me: "awww.....crap..."
 
Mike,
You should fly into and out of VBG 200' x 15,000' (3 miles)... how many touch and goes do you want on one pass... very cool field to shoot approaches, plus the scenery is an added bonus since rwy 30 sends you over the ocean. restricted airspace also...
 
sparky said:
Mike,
You should fly into and out of VBG 200' x 15,000' (3 miles)... how many touch and goes do you want on one pass... very cool field to shoot approaches, plus the scenery is an added bonus since rwy 30 sends you over the ocean. restricted airspace also...
Click to expand...

Been in there twice on XC, neat place.

Used to fly cargo into Lake Havasu on a Parker, Havasu, Bullhead City run.

Been into both HII, as well as the old LHU when it was still open on the waterfront.
 
LHU was declared surplus in 1945. It became the original civilian Lake Havasu airport until closing in 1991. The last time I was out there was January of this year. Nothing remains of the airport. Houses and condos have blossomed to the point that even the east/west runway is no longer visible. It was visible until at least 2009. The adjoining recreational beach/dirt boat launching ramp is named Site 6, an artifact left over from the AAF days. (AAF #6 was gunnery range and R&R for Kingman AAFB.)

I always wondered of the orgin of the name Site 6. None of the locals I talked to knew the answer. After some digging, I found out. Neat stuff.
 
sparky said:
Mike,
You should fly into and out of VBG 200' x 15,000' (3 miles)... how many touch and goes do you want on one pass... very cool field to shoot approaches, plus the scenery is an added bonus since rwy 30 sends you over the ocean. restricted airspace also...
Click to expand...
Vandenburg is a few miles south of my home town. I once had a landing slot to land a civilian warbird there but the day of (morning arrival) the weather did not permit it. Bummer. That would have rounded out the triumvirate (Travis, Edwards, VGB) that I was hoping to complete in a civ aircraft.
 
It use to be that a second aircraft could not be cleared to land on the runway until the first one had cleared. That rule changed. The rationalization for allowing the change was that the equipment (aircraft, and particularly avionics) had improved enough that the possibility of loss of communications was remote enough to support making the change.
 
I actually had something like that happen earlier this week. I talked to a tower controllers today that said as long as the Same Runway Separation (SRS) Distance Minimums are met or exceeded, they can have multiple aircraft on the runway. The distance minimum is all dependent on the SRS category (3,000 ft. separation Class I, 4,500 ft.Class II, 6,000 ft. Class III). This is how a lot of air show fly-ins go. It is up to the controller to make sure the separation is good. However, when in doubt, use that PIC authority and go-around.
 
RICHARD5 said:
Vandenburg is a few miles south of my home town. I once had a landing slot to land a civilian warbird there but the day of (morning arrival) the weather did not permit it. Bummer. That would have rounded out the triumvirate (Travis, Edwards, VGB) that I was hoping to complete in a civ aircraft.
Click to expand...


RICHARD5,
VBG's famous fog bank that's a result of the pacific oceans north and south currents meeting right there... I would assume your at SMX... M. Jacksons old hometown...or if its changed "A LOT" Guadalupe home of the famous steak house The Hitching Post Restaurant... The best damn bbq TriTip anywhere... Does the Paso Robles Wine Fest still happen every year? If so I may have to schedule visit...
 
MikeD said:
Been in there twice on XC, neat place.

Used to fly cargo into Lake Havasu on a Parker, Havasu, Bullhead City run.

Been into both HII, as well as the old LHU when it was still open on the waterfront.
Click to expand...

You've been around awhile if you landed at LHU, one of those old AAF WWII aircraft is still sitting up on the mountain today and while most of it's been hauled off over the years by those seeking old relics for their walls, the engines are still sitting on the mountain and we just visited them this past winter...
 
sparky said:
RICHARD5,
VBG's famous fog bank that's a result of the pacific oceans north and south currents meeting right there... I would assume your at SMX... M. Jacksons old hometown...or if its changed "A LOT" Guadalupe home of the famous steak house The Hitching Post Restaurant... The best damn bbq TriTip anywhere... Does the Paso Robles Wine Fest still happen every year? If so I may have to schedule visit...
Click to expand...
No, there is no south current. Maybe an occasional eddy but that's not significant. I've wondered if the venturi effect of Avila/Pt San Luis has influence on fog formation around Pt Sal (north VGB coastline). The fog gets thick and forms earlier and stays longer in that section of coast than points north.

Not SMX, I alternated 'tween SBP and PRB with a plane based at each at different times.

Nevershoulda Land was in Santa Ynez valley, although both are in SB county so his trials were held in SM. Do you mean the Far Western in Gaudalupe? That is one fine steak house.

I imagine Paso still has it's wine party but I don't need city sanction to to rub shoulders and I know enough winemakers to keep me sated. I've not had reason to go to the event.

A trip to the area is always warranted.
 
MikeD said:
In the AF, depending on the MAJCOM and base, we can have multiple fighter-type aircraft on the runway at the same time, with 6k separation between dissimilar and 3k separation similar, under RRS..or Reduced Runway Separation, using the cold/hot sides of the runway. So it wasn't uncommon to see one jet landing, and 2 rolling-out downfield on a 12,000 foot runway.
Click to expand...


Or as SAC use to call them - The Elephant Walks - at least that is what they called them at Castle AFB. Pretty awesome to see 3 B-52s in different stages of dept.

I cant remember what year it was but during one of their alert launches, they had one BUFF that the navigator's eject seat semi launched. It blew him and his chair back and the hatch blew but the seat never fired him downward as they were accelerating - so he had a really terrifying view of the runway. :eek:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top