1500hrs quantity<quality

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
This applies to pretty much any briefing. When it's my leg and the captain decides to brief the entire flight (including the landing), all I hear is Charlie Brown's teacher in the other seat.
If it was the F/O's leg, I would brief the taxi, and say "the rest is up to you". Then let them say whatever made them happy. At the end I might bring something up based on past experience but most of the time I didn't. F/O's are Capts in training. Let them fly the jet the way they want.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
I read flex or toga, and the number.

I rode up front on Alaska, and don't remember them doing a big brief. Personally I think ours needs to be shortened. Definitely brief the weight, and make sure the V speeds make sense. Then if the runaway changes, then you can go over the engine out procedure again.

That's good to know. I will start looking closer at those.
Last time I was up front on Alaska the guy was reading from some company checklist and they had to brief their fatigue level. I was like "WTF". We didn't even do that at UPS. Maybe it was the first leg with a new F/O thing. Maybe it's a 117 thing. None of that at Brown.
 

roundout

Bus Driver
Last time I was up front on Alaska the guy was reading from some company checklist and they had to brief their fatigue level. I was like "WTF". We didn't even do that at UPS. Maybe it was the first leg with a new F/O thing. Maybe it's a 117 thing. None of that at Brown.
They don't let freight pilots speak of fatigue level, do they?

When AA was introducing the 787 to the fleet, they did a bunch of high altitude testing to study radiation exposure and such. They didn't like the numbers....so they stopped testing. Or so sayeth the rumor mill.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
This applies to pretty much any briefing. When it's my leg and the captain decides to brief the entire flight (including the landing), all I hear is Charlie Brown's teacher in the other seat.
Remember when people would brief MSA from that circle? From the 070 radial to the 190 radial, safe altitude is 2,500 ft. From 190 to 270 it's 3,200 ft. Blah blah.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Remember when people would brief MSA from that circle? From the 070 radial to the 190 radial, safe altitude is 2,500 ft. From 190 to 270 it's 3,200 ft. Blah blah.
military field plates have the same MSA circle good for 25NM, but also a singular number ESA that’s good for 100NM. Simple to mention if a crew or or notate for yourself if single pilot.

308C0F72-6821-4837-878A-84FE34710A47.jpeg
 

mikecweb

Well-Known Member
Last time I was up front on Alaska the guy was reading from some company checklist and they had to brief their fatigue level. I was like "WTF". We didn't even do that at UPS. Maybe it was the first leg with a new F/O thing. Maybe it's a 117 thing. None of that at Brown.
We are supposed to do that in the pre-brief at purple.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
I'd be curious to know if this is an Airbus thing, because Spirit does it as well, or at least used to. I think they call it the mini-brief. On a recent trip, the F/O and I dissected this brief pretty hard. He asked "do most people brief the target N1 and Flex temp?" My reply was "I have no idea. I'm busy taxiing the plane, and really don't care about anything other than the gross weight, flap setting, nav or hdg, and whether the upper ECAM DU says FLEX or TOGA in the corner." We ended up having a nice discussion about threats, relevant things, and irrelevant things.

Funny story about the gross weight. An F/O made a data entry error a few weeks ago on a plane with no ACARS, but caught it on the mini-brief when the gross weight on the Lower DU didn't match what I had in my head from reading the manifest. I see a lot of people just fold those up and tuck them away without looking at the numbers. I strongly recommend taking 20 seconds to look at it before stuffing it.
How do you not have a company standard for briefing N1 or flex?

Gross weight errors? Don't you guys do a load closeout verification?

I've had buddies that have left AS for Delta and United. On the 737, they said AS did it far easier/better for this fleet. I gotta be honest our procedures are really really simple, and same with checklists.
 
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roundout

Bus Driver
How do you not have a company standard for briefing N1 or flex?
88.8% vs 90.1% is really a big deal. What matters to me is 1) are the needles touching the donuts? Yes? Ok, the engines are producing the amount of thrust the FADECs are commanding, and 2) does the Perf page thrust setting match what the FMA says? If yes, things are good. If no, something is set wrong, and it's likely I'll end up just going to TOGA anyway, so then the beautiful briefing about the percentage of N1 to expect is now moot anyway.

Gross weight errors? Don't you guys do a load closeout verification?
Read my post again. We were in a plane without ACARS. The verification is where I caught the FO's mistake. Which is why we look at the numbers (either from load planning or AeroData) , cross check them when we brief the gross weight indicated on the lower ECAM DU, and why I wrote "all I care about is gross weight, flap setting, FLEX or TOGA, nav or heading."
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
88.8% vs 90.1% is really a big deal. What matters to me is 1) are the needles touching the donuts? Yes? Ok, the engines are producing the amount of thrust the FADECs are commanding, and 2) does the Perf page thrust setting match what the FMA says? If yes, things are good. If no, something is set wrong, and it's likely I'll end up just going to TOGA anyway, so then the beautiful briefing about the percentage of N1 to expect is now moot anyway.



Read my post again. We were in a plane without ACARS. The verification is where I caught the FO's mistake. Which is why we look at the numbers (either from load planning or AeroData) , cross check them when we brief the gross weight indicated on the lower ECAM DU, and why I wrote "all I care about is gross weight, flap setting, FLEX or TOGA, nav or heading."
Sorry, missed the no ACARS part.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
military field plates have the same MSA circle good for 25NM, but also a singular number ESA that’s good for 100NM. Simple to mention if a crew or or notate for yourself if single pilot.

View attachment 60869

When I was at my regional we had LIDO charts and for Canadian airports (like Quebec) there was something similar. Min safe altitude for 100nm. I thought that was pretty cool.
 

mikecweb

Well-Known Member
Final approach course xxx deg
No lower than yyy ft
Missed is a climbing/descending zzz turn etc

That's it right?
I wish, but they keep writing the checks as long as I show up at the right time, wear the appropriate pieces of flair, and say most of the right things.

I once got confronted by another crew member that was beside themselves because of having to wear a mask a few minutes a day at work. He said so you're ok with just be told to "shut up and color." Well yea. Shut up and color and make 300k, yes I am ok with that.

Not a profession for individualism for the most part.
 

GypsyPilot

Well-Known Member
I wish, but they keep writing the checks as long as I show up at the right time, wear the appropriate pieces of flair, and say most of the right things.

I once got confronted by another crew member that was beside themselves because of having to wear a mask a few minutes a day at work. He said so you're ok with just be told to "shut up and color." Well yea. Shut up and color and make 300k, yes I am ok with that.

Not a profession for individualism for the most part.
The biggest complainers, at least in my base, already spent 20 years being told to “Shut up and color”. Some of them act like wannabe rebellious teenagers when they’re 50+ years old, I guess because they never got that out of their system when they were young?

I don’t understand why anyone wants to make pointless arguments about stuff that isn’t going to change. It’s a total waste of time and effort, and most of it is super cringey anyway. Super fun when some rich entitled co-worker is complaining/arguing with some worker bee in SE Asia about quarantines/mask policies.
 

ahw01

Well-Known Member
I wish, but they keep writing the checks as long as I show up at the right time, wear the appropriate pieces of flair, and say most of the right things.

I once got confronted by another crew member that was beside themselves because of having to wear a mask a few minutes a day at work. He said so you're ok with just be told to "shut up and color." Well yea. Shut up and color and make 300k, yes I am ok with that.

Not a profession for individualism for the most part.
Oh I hear ya. I'll say whatever I'm trained to say. Which for GA was the above.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Our T/O brief is simple

Threats (both guys)
Taxi plan and Runway
Route - clearance and verification
E/O procedure
T/O alternate or emer return plan
Performance validity
Any considerations?
 
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