141 Schools and Examining Authority
- Thread starter johnsclem
- Start date
jhugz
Well-Known Member
Yes, this is how my job handles it. We are 141, but DE's do the actual checkrides, we just do the stage checks.
Self examining authority needs to get the ax. Biggest crock in aviation as I see it. A seperate party needs to be involved, whether a DPE or the FAA. You shouldn't be allowed to pay the same people for your training that you pay for your certificate. Same reason why you can't have the same DPE give your a check ride if he's done your training.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
Not from what I've seen.
Just on principal alone, it smells fishy. People do end up buying ratings at some places. My first job flying was for American Flyers, who has self examining authority.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
IDK what you are asking here, it's the same as any other checkride. Except instead of signing someone off under part 61 reg's you sign them off when they completed the course under part 141. The check ride is exactly the same and so is the paperwork for the most part. An assistant chief just has to do a couple extra steps.
As for self-examining authority I agree 110% w/ Mshunter.
motormadness24
Well-Known Member
I completely agree that the Part 142 deal shouldn't be there. It is really unfair when it comes to initial CFI. The FSDO's loves to do initial CFI rides while people over at the part 142 schools get to cruise on through with someone from within.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
And flight schools that have a list of examiners that they won't use if they bust too many of their students?
There are a lot of ways to get phishy.
I've never heard of a a good thing about those guys, but around here, schools take it very seriously.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Hey Guys,
The 141 school I worked at we had a DE on staff. He was there every day to do checkrides.
But one guy isn't enough when things get cracking, so we often sent students out to local DEs to do rides.
As for the CFI, the FSDO required EVERY ride to be with them, and the CFI ride being what it is, even then (1990), the applicant would drive up, and if he passed the oral, we'd send a plane up to him.
I support the CFI ride being a "gatekeeper". Given the really limited opportunity a low-time commercial ticket provides, the CFI really is a "professional ticket". And OTHER people's lives are on the line.
If I had my way, I'd put some hard time requirements (500 for a CFI, 800 for CFII, etc) to make sure we just aren't training green-on-green. But that would make the CFI ticket a REAL professional ticket, and not just a time building tool, so I'm sure that would be met with howls of dismay.
With that said, a virtually guaranteed automatic bust by going with the FAA is not the way to be doing business, and there needs to be a meeting of the minds.
Richman
The 141 school I worked at we had a DE on staff. He was there every day to do checkrides.
But one guy isn't enough when things get cracking, so we often sent students out to local DEs to do rides.
As for the CFI, the FSDO required EVERY ride to be with them, and the CFI ride being what it is, even then (1990), the applicant would drive up, and if he passed the oral, we'd send a plane up to him.
I support the CFI ride being a "gatekeeper". Given the really limited opportunity a low-time commercial ticket provides, the CFI really is a "professional ticket". And OTHER people's lives are on the line.
If I had my way, I'd put some hard time requirements (500 for a CFI, 800 for CFII, etc) to make sure we just aren't training green-on-green. But that would make the CFI ticket a REAL professional ticket, and not just a time building tool, so I'm sure that would be met with howls of dismay.
With that said, a virtually guaranteed automatic bust by going with the FAA is not the way to be doing business, and there needs to be a meeting of the minds.
Richman
Apples to oranges. Using a select few examiners is different than using an in house examiner/self examining authority. I am guilty of using the same examiner for more than one checkride. But I think you fail to see my point. It's a conflict of interest. It'd be like asking yourself to evaluate your inst. skills and give yourself an IPC. Sure, you may think your doing great, but to an outsider you made many errors. It's also a lot harder to get an honest opnion of how well your doing as a CFI when you all teach from the same sylibus, and train for a checkride. I'm not saying the school you work at, or you are a bad instructor. What I am saying is there is a lack of checks and balances when it never leaves the nest. My brain is frazzled from my 3am wake up today. Maybe I should past after a nap.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
How the checkrides are done differs at each school. I know 141 schools that do very thorough checkrides where a normal DPE covers their little specific areas that they like to touch on and move on. Sometimes the in house rides can be much harder than a DPE checkride. Deal with it on a case by case basis. I know a local 141 where and end of course is an all day affair.
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
Where I worked, the 141 self-examining rides were WAAAAY harder and more in-depth than what the local DEs would give.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
I can see where you would think that, for sure.
I like that there is a trust and pride left somewhere that the lack of checks-and-balances isn't a problem.
The two places I know that are in-house, send their students through the wringer.
Bad apples can happen, but there are also bad DPEs.
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
Very true.
Some DPE's I know can be very lax. I know, I passed checkrides when I knew I had busted.
The 141 school I went to was looking into getting self-examining authority, but they needed a 90% first time pass rate. They had a ~80%. So it didn't quite work out for them, but they did end up getting an FAA approved ATC program.
CharlieRomeo
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I would prefer to send my students with the DEs.
R