121- logging holds

higney85

Property of Scheduling
Ok... here is how I understand the regs.

Logging IFR- PF (pilot flying) logs the actual time
Instr approaches- PF logs the approach, but not as an instrument approach unless still actual at FAF.
Holds- PF? I have yet to see a clear explanation on logging holds in the 121 world.

Obviously we all know in the 121 world we have recurrents and such to keep us "current" but I am a bit OCD on records. I have not logged holds when I was not the PF but am curious on how they are supposed to be logged.
 

Clocks

Well-Known Member
I havent logged any holds I've done that aren't in actual, which means I haven't logged any of them even though I've been PF for a few since we've always been in VMC.
 

JoelT

Well-Known Member
I have never, ever, ever logged a hold. And, EVERY approach in the 121 world is an instrument approach (unless you work for one of those that can cancel IFR). Remember, a visual approach is still an instrument approach. The interviewers at Delta and the FAA agreed with me.
 

Seggy

Well-Known Member
And, EVERY approach in the 121 world is an instrument approach (unless you work for one of those that can cancel IFR). Remember, a visual approach is still an instrument approach. The interviewers at Delta and the FAA agreed with me.

I will respectfully agree to disagree with you here.

Just out of curiosity what is your rational with that?

And from my prep Delta really didn't care how you logged it, they wanted to see consistency with you logging the time. Once again, I didn't get the job there so who knows, but that was my understanding. :panic:
 

matt152

Well-Known Member
I was VFR into MEM in a Cessna 152. I asked the approach controller if I was "cleared for the visual" and he ripped me saying I was not IFR and could not be cleared for the visual.
 

bike21

9-5 Ruins Lives
I was VFR into MEM in a Cessna 152. I asked the approach controller if I was "cleared for the visual" and he ripped me saying I was not IFR and could not be cleared for the visual.
Controller was correct. A 'visual' approach as you referred to is an IFR tool.
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
IFR Visual Approach

I don't think the intent of the basic instrument currency rules is to do six visual approaches in addition to the intercepting and tracking of courses and holding patterns.

A visual approach is an IFR clearance but I wouldn't call it an instrument approach.
 

higney85

Property of Scheduling
I keep only actual approaches logged- why? Well if I am doing the "visual" I typically do not have a flight director up and on a grander scale am not flying "by reference to instruments". I keep track of airspeed and follow the vasi/papi or take a glance at the glideslope if I need a second opinion when there is no vasi/papi to reference. An ILS/VOR/GPS RNAV is flown by reference to instruments so I log it as an actual instrument approach in the logbook when such approach is used. Plus... logbook pro doesn't have a "Visual" box for approaches ;).

I just try to keep all my times/flights up to date and detailed but have not seen a clear clarification on holds. This only comes to mind because thursday was a cluster with a hold/divert/ and a PITA FA all at the same time. Of course we had a sticky key FMS to help us along :banghead:.
 

Lee D

Well-Known Member
This is just the way I do it. -- While I agree that "technically" every approach in the 121 world is an IFR approach, I only log the ones were I am in the soup for at least part of the time.
I'll usually mention something in my comments section if I hold in the soup. Assuming I remember when I log things several weeks later. (I try to keep notes on my trip sheets.) To be honest I dont' know if we have to log holds in the 121 world. Hmmmm, should probably look that one up. Maybe Polar knows. :)
 

Fins Up

Well-Known Member
Re: IFR Visual Approach

I don't think the intent of the basic instrument currency rules is to do six visual approaches in addition to the intercepting and tracking of courses and holding patterns.

A visual approach is an IFR clearance but I wouldn't call it an instrument approach.
:yeahthat:
True. Even though you can be given a Visual approach while on an IFR flight plan, it technically is not an "instrument approach". I remember looking it up specifically in the AIM/FAR, but I don't remember the paragraph.
 

launchpad

Well-Known Member
To be honest I don't know if we have to log holds in the 121 world. Hmmmm, should probably look that one up. Maybe Polar knows. :)
6 and 12 month PC's and recurrent take care of any IPC, BFR or logging requirement for currency...for 121 flying at least....
 

Lee D

Well-Known Member
6 and 12 month PC's and recurrent take care of any IPC, BFR or logging requirement for currency...for 121 flying at least....
I agree. I simply hadn't thought/worried much about holds & logbooks, so it got me thinking. The only legal reason I can see for logging holds as a 121 pilot is if you fly part 91 and want to use that for your currency there.
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
My Turn?

A non-precision approach is a precision approach.

Your turn.
fly8slep -

Please re-phrase that. I have no idea what you are talking about.

It also does not relate to what I was talking about in the quote.
 

jtrain609

Anarcho-Bidenist
Re: IFR Visual Approach

A non-precision approach is a precision approach.

Your turn.
Might you be trying to say a "precision like" approach (which is still a non precision approach) is actually a precision approach?

If so, not true.
 

matt152

Well-Known Member
Or is it an ILS that is flown to the circling MDA? Precision for the first part, then non-precision?
 

Bumblebee

Commodore
Re: IFR Visual Approach

Might you be trying to say a "precision like" approach (which is still a non precision approach) is actually a precision approach?

If so, not true.
maybe he's trying to say that it requires precision to execute a non-precision approach???:buck:
 
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