Currently a High School Senior, and sent the tuition fee for Riddle. I am terrified.

[Toobdrvr]

I reject the cost of “pedigree” higher education on principal alone. You absolutely do not get value for the cost.

At the aptly named BS level, there is, admittedly, a narrow set of circumstances where a “name brand” makes a difference. This is not one of those cases.

I do not disagree with any of this. However:

For me, personally, I credit my experience at ERAU for the success I have achieved in our field. Maybe most don’t need it, but I certainly did.

I showed up to college waaaaay behind maturity/discipline-wise (could probably write a book on why that was). ERAU gave me the immersive, supportive environment I needed to get through. It also opened up a lot of “side opportunities” that broadened my perspective (Safety side-major, NTSB internship, ran a safety program, etc). It also helped me build a very strong professional network. And, frankly, I had a BLAST (maybe a little too much fun).

Maybe most wouldn’t need the level of support, but I certainly did. My first year or so was “Maturity Bootcamp”. There is NO WAY 18yo me would have made it going through community college and part 61. Who knows where I’d be. Not here. It was VERY expensive (made much more so by my aforementioned maturity/ discipline level). Well spent in my case…

 

[Richman]

But people aren’t terribly interested in supporting public higher education anymore, either.

Personally, I think they brought that on themselves when the highest paid state employee is frequently a sportsball coach.

I make my disdain known when I get calls from “alumni development” (and I have never once updated my contact info). No responsible adult has anyone called to listen to my issues.

 

[WacoFan]

I'll chime in with a bit of old man stuff.

All I ever wanted to do was fly airplanes. Really wanted military but severely broke my leg in college and the Colonel running the AFROTC detachment said I wouldn't be physically eligible for a pilot slot. This was a bummer obviously. So, I dropped out and went back to Houston to pursue flying that way (had private already). But here is another instance of "life" - at 23, after never even missing school for illness, I lost 100% of my hearing in my left ear, 80% in my right ear, and 100% of my vestibular system in both ears - in a two week timeframe. No airline (or any other flying career) and for a time no flying at all, which is the thing I loved above anything else.

Point is, you're not in complete control of your destiny. A LOT of things have to work correctly for you to retire from a major airline (on your own terms). Look at this from a risk management perspective (and a lot of aviation and flying is risk management). You can take six-figure debt to get a hyper-specific degree in hopes of landing a job that will entail multiple opportunities to get fired on an annual basis (medical renewals, competency checks). So perhaps get your flight training done at a local FBO and study something in college like business, engineering, or something that has some applicability in the outside world. Bonus if you use your gap year to get PPL - CFI Maybe you could instruct at Riddle or one of these state schools? That would give you networking, an income, and (if you go to a state school vs the sausage fest Riddle) lots of hot college chicks.

Hang at the airport a lot. Take every chance to fly you can - like Pat said above. He was a janitor, I was a ramp rat. Network, be likeable, soak up every bit of knowledge you can and basically live at the airport.

Never take your health, or anything about this for granted. Minimize your risk and maximize options. Enjoy every single minute.

 

[WacoFan]

All I see right now is just people bashing on Riddle. I have a -1500 SAI Index for FAFSA and plan to take out Federal Loans to help with tuition. I plan to go with Aeronautical Science (with flight training). My parents tell me not to worry about the cost. But I am to say the least. How will payments be per semester/end of year? Should I recall my admission acceptance? Is it still a good flight school?

If we may - let's back up a minute. Tell us about you. Why are you looking at an aviation career? What is it you are attracted to about flying for a career? Have you flown (discovery flight)? What are your interests, both aeronautical and otherwise?

Just occurs to me that you are asking for advice but we know absolutely nothing about you - which may improve the quality of the advice.

 

[ppragman]

One downfall of the "I can see myself doing nothing else" mindset, and I had it too, is that motivates many of us into to get a degree in aviation rather than degree/training is a second area of interest.

Totally. I went back to school because I was flying medevac, I had just finished my BS in aviation I'd done on the side while flying for a living and found a math problem I couldn't do. The deeper I dug the more intractable I found it to be until before I knew it I was enrolling in college caclulus classes. If you would have asked me at 17 what I wanted to learn in college math would have not been on the list - but then there I was going back to school in my 20s to try to solve a problem that I couldn't solve. There are other courses that are just so amazing too. It sounds dumb, but my "useless GenEd art history class" that I didn't want to take ended up changing my life in a big way.

I don't know what to tell OP, but diversity in experience is really great and if you only study flying stuff will you have that? Or will you be a one trick pony?

I reject the cost of “pedigree” higher education on principal alone. You absolutely do not get value for the cost.

Agreed - really, school is largely two things, credentialism and a place that makes it a little bit easier to crack the books and study. If you're self-motivated, you don't need that motivation, but most people aren't self-motivated enough to get indepth knowledge in a broad variety of topics without it, and at 22, even if you learned all the same stuff and were exposed to the stuff a well rounded person typically gets exposed to and learns in college, nobody will believe you or care. You can be incredibly smart and if you don't have the piece of paper, people don't give a damn.

I've *never* seen someone say, "Oh, State University of Townsville? That's not a real education!!" It could be that you would learn things better by not going, but practically, to get a job and to stand out from the pack the piece of paper still retains a little value. But I definitely wouldn't say that Private or Ivy League is remotely necessary to prove that you took Econ 101 and Introduction to Dance. Do that • at Community College then transfer to the cheapest state school you can afford.

All I ever wanted to do was fly airplanes. Really wanted military but severely broke my leg in college and the Colonel running the AFROTC detachment said I wouldn't be physically eligible for a pilot slot. This was a bummer obviously. So, I dropped out and went back to Houston to pursue flying that way (had private already). But here is another instance of "life" - at 23, after never even missing school for illness, I lost 100% of my hearing in my left ear, 80% in my right ear, and 100% of my vestibular system in both ears - in a two week timeframe. No airline (or any other flying career) and for a time no flying at all, which is the thing I loved above anything else.

Yup. All I ever wanted to do in this universe was fly airplanes. I got sick 5 years ago and even after a fantastic, dynamic, and interesting flying career, I was grounded. Were it not for the other education I had, the other interests I'd cultivated, I'd be hosed.

In some ways, my life has actually become *more* interesting than if I would have stayed flying for a living. I've done some far cooler things than I would have done if I hadn't had this happen to me - but... for OP, you DO NOT KNOW the future. So, it's good to find things other than flying airplanes that you like to do.

 

[A300Capt]

Admittedly I am very far removed from my college days but I flew with folks from all walks of life and a variety of aviation backgrounds. Everyone flies about the same after about 5000 hrs under your belt. Back in the dinosaur days there was Riddle and Parks in St Louis. I’m not gonna hate on those two universities but if you think they’re the easy street or better road to the airlines…they’re not. They’ll tell you they are and flash a shiny brochure in your face while taking your money and promise you the world after graduation. Don’t fall for it. They really don’t care what happens to you after you stop giving them money. The important thing is to just get a degree as cheaply as possible and I’d advise you get it in something actually marketable as a fall back if the aviation dream bubble pops in your face.

Other than something like aeronautical engineering, any other “general aviation type of degree” will have you at the nearest McDonalds saying, “You want fries with that…?” if your budding aviation career goes south. And you’ll still have all those very expensive student loans to pay off. There are so many obstacles in aviation are out of your control that I would suggest initially doing it as cheaply as possible. Not to sound like an old boomer but looking back (if I could talk to my 20 yr old self) you don’t even know what you don’t even know yet. Can you continue to hold a first class medical? Will the economy go bust? Will your airline furlough or go under?

Get your first two years at a community college and finish at a cheaper 4 yr school with a good marketable fall back degree. Go to your local FBO and get your ratings much cheaper than Riddle or any other pilot mill university will cost you. You’ll thank me later..
And with an experienced instructor not a 250 hr wonder kid with no real world experience just parroting what he/she was told. Do you want to learn from a “weathered” CFII who’s spent real time in the soup or a freshly minted Florida CFII kid who’s never been in the inside of a cloud?
I know, cause I was at one time one of those very young CFII’s who had like 1/10th of an hour in the clouds teaching instrument students and I sucked cause I didn’t have any real world experience to draw from. If I were still teaching instrument students today I would make sure we did as much as possible in real IFR conditions….there is no substitute.

Back on topic…the airlines really don’t care where you went to college. They don’t even care what your degree was in. They barely care what your GPA was.. About the only time colleges were discussed was in the cockpit just so we could rag on the other guy’s football team!
To be absolutely transparent here, I got a worthless Psych degree on a “C” average GPA. I didn’t care about Psychology, not one bit other than to fly half my career on the backside of the clock asking myself I felt about it….I *felt* like crap was my 4 yr psych analysis. I cared about flying airplanes. I really didn’t have a backup plan.

About the only thing I got out of college was to party my butt off at the Sigma Chi frat house and chased skirts while flying on the side. But…I got to check that all important box on the pilot application when asked if I had a degree. Nobody asked in the interview where I went to school, what I majored in or what my GPA was….ever! I got all my ratings at a small Ma and Pa FBO in nowhere Missouri. Would Riddle or Parks had made me a better pilot? Who knows, probably not, but I guess I did ok without them and my college tuition and flight training was a fraction of what those big pilot universities would’ve charged.

If you or your folks have money to burn then by all means go to Riddle. It won’t move you to the front of the line but at least your degree will be more interesting and fun than mine was….

 

[WacoFan]

My issue with Riddle: Parks and Spartan manufactured some amazing airplanes. Riddle has not.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Personally, I think they brought that on themselves when the highest paid state employee is frequently a sportsball coach.

Football, at least at a large university with a decent program, usually does pay for itself and all the other sports too, but I concur.

 

[Richman]

Football, at least at a large university with a decent program, usually does pay for itself and all the other sports too, but I concur.

That’s what they say, but there’s no way to know if it does or if it’s just a self licking ice cream cone.

 

[bbmikej]

I'm not a pilot but went the dispatch route so my perspective can be a little different, but unless you can go to Riddle in this day and age and come out without debt, it probably won't be worth it. I graduated in 2013 from a large in stage school with a degree in aviation and I still have 8-10 years left on my loans. And that's only with about $60k-$70k coming out of it. I would definitely recommend going to community college for 2 years, get some of the lower ratings and prereqs out of the way, then transferring to a large university like ISU if you can. The college experience at a large state school like that can be really good for the personal side of things and for general networking. On top of this, get at least a minor if not a major in something like Business Administration so that you can pivot later on if you want to.

 

[ClearedForOption]

Admittedly I am very far removed from my college days but I flew with folks from all walks of life and a variety of aviation backgrounds. Everyone flies about the same after about 5000 hrs under your belt. Back in the dinosaur days there was Riddle and Parks in St Louis. I’m not gonna hate on those two universities but if you think they’re the easy street or better road to the airlines…they’re not. They’ll tell you they are and flash a shiny brochure in your face while taking your money and promise you the world after graduation. Don’t fall for it. They really don’t care what happens to you after you stop giving them money. The important thing is to just get a degree as cheaply as possible and I’d advise you get it in something actually marketable as a fall back if the aviation dream bubble pops in your face.

Get your first two years at a community college and finish at a cheaper 4 yr school with a good marketable fall back degree. Go to your local FBO and get your ratings much cheaper than Riddle or any other pilot mill university will cost you. You’ll thank me later..
And with an experienced instructor not a 250 hr wonder kid with no real world experience just parroting what he/she was told. Do you want to learn from a “weathered” CFII who’s spent real time in the soup or a freshly minted Florida CFII kid who’s never been in the inside of a cloud?
I know, cause I was at one time one of those very young CFII’s who had like 1/10th of an hour in the clouds teaching instrument students and I sucked cause I didn’t have any real world experience to draw from. If I were still teaching instrument students today I would make sure we did as much as possible in real IFR conditions….there is no substitute.

You know who first told me the bolded info above... this guy:

Not the Wizard Trembyle, but Will Addams - the guy who portrayed him and who taught me (and hundreds of film students in the 70's to 90's) at UCLA/LMU... He knew what he was talking about.

It is true, the degree itself doesn't matter. And time at a university is what you make of it. And honestly, to everyone out there on the innertubes... where you go truly doesn't matter. It's the life experiences that you have, the friends that you make, the effort that you put in. I'm ~30 years from when I should have graduated, 21 years from when I actually got the piece of paper - one thing that I can say, as someone who through circumstance had to go back and finish my degree in my late 20's - I think that got more out of the last semester then all the ones leading up to it in the mid 90's. Why? Life experience and maturity.

To kinda mis-quote Ray Stantz, "I worked in the private sector and they expected results." Six years away from being in school full time taught me the discipline to bang out the work that school required. When I went back I had more in common with the professors than my fellow students and it really showed. Would I have been as successful if I went straight into aviation vs. doing the film school thing first? Who knows - I would like to think that I'd be a super-senior CA at a legacy having started earlier. But that's the thing, you never know - and I brought a whole bunch of (life) experiences along with me on my career path so far that have served me well.

To the OP: I hope that all the answers in this thread give you something to think about. The only real piece of advice I can offer is that you don't know what you don't know. There is something to a full-service program. There is also something to be said about earning a degree in a related field (a back-up if you will) and getting your licenses on the side. No two people get to the endgame of commercial aviation in exactly the same way. There are pros and cons about every path. You won't really know what the "right" thing is till you are looking back with 20/20 perfect hindsight. Until then, make the best decision for you - at the time - using all the data you have at your fingertips. You will make mistakes and you will have regrets.

You will also have a blast. I went all over the world and had crazy adventures while earning my licenses. My career and seniority may be a bit delayed, but my life has turned out pretty good. It's not perfect, but it's been fun.

 

[Nihon_Ni]

Just a data point about selecting a college for networking opportunities: I graduated from a Big 10 college about 35 years ago (back when there were only ten schools in the Big 10). I can count on one hand the meaningful conversations I've had with classmates since I graduated. My choice of college didn't further my career any more or less than any other college would have. YMMV.

 

[statusseeker1]

You can do flight training anywhere. You can get in-state tuition in your state for a fraction of the cost of ERAU. The amount of money you’ll spend to fly at Riddle will be exponentially higher than it needs to be. Trust your gut here OP.

 

[Richman]

A good Community College is the exact same material for a fraction of the price, plus you can benefit by living local. My experience is that they are generally occupied by a larger fraction of people who are there on "the mission" rather than having a good time being away from mom and dad for the first time.

The school I am most familiar with had better facilities than many smaller name brands.

Lower price, less drama, WAY less BS.

High priced schools have done an outstanding marketing job, though, I will grant them that. I watched state universities go from "yea, that is my ultra-safety school" where if you could fog a mirror, they were legally obligated to take you and costs were quite reasonable, to considering themselves "Ivy" with a price tag to match, where good kids with high grades couldn't get in.

Anything that ridiculous has moneybros involved.

I would add stay away from student loans. They are the devil. If I was made king for a day, the very first thing I would do is make them dismissible in bankruptcy, sit back and watch the fun.

 

[ppragman]

A good Community College is the exact same material for a fraction of the price, plus you can benefit by living local. My experience is that they are generally occupied by a larger fraction of people who are there on "the mission" rather than having a good time being away from mom and dad for the first time.

The school I am most familiar with had better facilities than many smaller name brands.

Lower price, less drama, WAY less BS.

High priced schools have done an outstanding marketing job, though, I will grant them that. I watched state universities go from "yea, that is my ultra-safety school" where if you could fog a mirror, they were legally obligated to take you and costs were quite reasonable, to considering themselves "Ivy" with a price tag to match, where good kids with high grades couldn't get in.

Anything that ridiculous has moneybros involved.

I would add stay away from student loans. They are the devil. If I was made king for a day, the very first thing I would do is make them dismissible in bankruptcy, sit back and watch the fun.

I "did the right thing" and paid all of mine off. It was hard, I worked basically every extra day I could for a year. I basically worked 6-7 days a week for a year. I was starting to run into 135 quarterly limitations.

If I could magically let everyone off the hook for their student loans, I would in a heart beat. The second I didn't have my student loans we were able to afford a house, it's kind of crazy how much of a drag they are on young people.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I "did the right thing" and paid all of mine off. It was hard, I worked basically every extra day I could for a year. I basically worked 6-7 days a week for a year. I was starting to run into 135 quarterly limitations.

If I could magically let everyone off the hook for their student loans, I would in a heart beat. The second I didn't have my student loans we were able to afford a house, it's kind of crazy how much of a drag they are on young people.

Meanwhile the people who won’t do loan forgiveness probably committed fraud with their CARES PPP loans.

 

[CFIT99]

I'm not a pilot but went the dispatch route so my perspective can be a little different, but unless you can go to Riddle in this day and age and come out without debt, it probably won't be worth it. I graduated in 2013 from a large in stage school with a degree in aviation and I still have 8-10 years left on my loans. And that's only with about $60k-$70k coming out of it. I would definitely recommend going to community college for 2 years, get some of the lower ratings and prereqs out of the way, then transferring to a large university like ISU if you can. The college experience at a large state school like that can be really good for the personal side of things and for general networking. On top of this, get at least a minor if not a major in something like Business Administration so that you can pivot later on if you want to.

I did a Big 10 state aviation program and it was good but the college portion was way better, wish I did a different major. One more marketable outside this niche field.

BUT definitely wish I knew that CCollege was a better option, would have come out with the same degree with almost half the debt (and I had a scholarship that paid for a large chunk). took 11 years to pay off with a signing bonus being what I was able to pay the rest off.

 

[bbmikej]

I did a Big 10 state aviation program and it was good but the college portion was way better, wish I did a different major. One more marketable outside this niche field.

BUT definitely wish I knew that CCollege was a better option, would have come out with the same degree with almost half the debt (and I had a scholarship that paid for a large chunk). took 11 years to pay off with a signing bonus being what I was able to pay the rest off.

I think that's kinda what I was trying to get at. The FAA doesn't put your flight school on your certificate which makes what you want to get out of college more important. While I do wish I had less debt (had an academic scholarship but lost it), I wouldn't trade the college experience outside of aviation for anything.

 

[CFIT99]

I think that's kinda what I was trying to get at. The FAA doesn't put your flight school on your certificate which makes what you want to get out of college more important. While I do wish I had less debt (had an academic scholarship but lost it), I wouldn't trade the college experience outside of aviation for anything.

yup my wife did 1.5 years at a CC and then finished her undergrad at a state school...when she got her MBA, the CC didn't even come up.

 

[ahw01]

I had the same in academia, where reputation is king but networking can be the only difference. The degrees all cost the same (in the UK at least). But industry connections the universities have can help. (Outside of aviation).

Same for flight schools, I enjoyed Westwind and American Flyers but they all train to Part 61…