A Bad Time for a Career Change?

jtrain609 said:
Right...but I'm making $19,000 a year.

And I flew 16 hours last month.

Now at this point, you've already written me off, I'm aware of that; but what I'm trying to pound into your head is that this could happen to you. That's all, just a realization that your dream can become a nightmare quickly and everything you're saying goes out the window.

That's all.
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Sounds like you have time for a part-time job if you only flew 16 hours last month. Are you business smart? Start a home based business. I have one where I can make your salary in a month if I chose too. Realistically if I work about 10 hours a week I make 3 times your salary. There are many businesses you can do this with. Everyone one of them is sales related (Financial Planning, Executive Recruiting, Operational Consulting, Motivational Speaking, Insurance Sales, etc.). Sounds like this might be an option for you.

Gosh, now I sound like an infomercial! Send me $39.95 and I'll supply you the book and business plan on how to be successful, how to be rich, how to make your own hours, how to run your own life and business from home! lol

Anyway, no matter what career you pick, you need to understand pay scales and how things work. It's part of being educated and making an educated decision about a career choice. You made one. Maybe you made the wrong one. That's okay. Sometimes until you do something, you just don't know. Especially if you are young. That's why most college grads do not work in thier own degree field. I stayed in Accounting only 2 years (my degree career field). So if you need a change, just work toward one. It takes time and effort, but putting a long term plan together will get you there.

And quite simply. If you make $19k per year for your whole life, that's your own fault! Stop blaming the world for it. You will get more experience, you will get more money, and you will get a better quality of life. It takes time no matter what profession you are in though to earn the respect and honor of having those benefits. So try to stay positive, even when things look pretty crappy. And hey, maybe some day we'll fly together. Or if not, maybe some day you'll be my finanical advisor or something if you end up changing to a new career. But no matter, I'm sure you'll be making at least three times your current earnings by then.

I wish you the best. And seriously, if there is anything I can do to help you, just PM me. You don't make enough money to be a personal client of mine in life coaching and/or career counseling (that's a $250/session bill), but I am always willing to help out a fellow aviator the best I can for free (time permitting).

Good luck. Best Regards.

PS - And considering how things are going in not only aviation, but also possibly across many industries in the near future, we may be able to continue this conversation in the line at the grocery that accepts food stamps and will cash our unemployment check...
 
Jtrain, you're at the bottom rung of the ladder at a commuter. Honestly man, I know you're upset but we've all been thru it. It's almost like you're whining now.
 
Call it whining then. If there's one thing I've learned it's to not worry too much about what people on the internet think of me.
 
jtrain609 said:
Call it whining then. If there's one thing I've learned it's to not worry too much about what people on the internet think of me.
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Awesome attitude
smiley_thumbsup.gif
. Good luck in your endeavors (seriously).
 
jtrain609 said:
Call it whining then. If there's one thing I've learned it's to not worry too much about what people on the internet think of me.
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Remember, the person you blast today (even on the internet) may be the person you interview with tommorrow. Be careful.
 
can someone tell me what it is about flying that im willing to bust my balls and put myself in to financial ruin to make under 20k per year?
 
determined2fly said:
can someone tell me what it is about flying that im willing to bust my balls and put myself in to financial ruin to make under 20k per year?
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The same reason a school teacher working thier way up the ladder, a chef working thier way through the system, and everyone else in many other careers have. They enjoy what they do. And we all know if we stick at it, have a little luck, and continue to smile we will all someday make decent money with a decent quality of life.

What a first year cook/ apprentice chef make? How long until they run the show as executive chef?

How about those who love teaching in the inner city for the sake of the kids? For the love of what they do for sure.
 
I believe we do it because like all good pilots we are optimist and hope for the best. Honestly, thats what probably makes a good pilot, someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done and doesn't give up(ie, think emergencies and how we're trained to never give up and work for a positive outcome). Now translate that to our desire to look past the $20,000 first year salary and hope that someday we get some seniority and make real money. Unfortunately, with the industry in a slump those at the bottom(ie, myself) see a looooong time before the light at the end of the tunnel... Sad but true from my perspective. Hard to be optimistic, but hey keep hope alive!

3green
 
TexasFlyer said:
The same reason a school teacher working thier way up the ladder, a chef working thier way through the system, and everyone else in many other careers have. They enjoy what they do. And we all know if we stick at it, have a little luck, and continue to smile we will all someday make decent money with a decent quality of life.

What a first year cook/ apprentice chef make? How long until they run the show as executive chef?

How about those who love teaching in the inner city for the sake of the kids? For the love of what they do for sure.
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One thing about being a pilot that I do not see in any other industry though, experience means almost nothing when it comes to salary. If a 15 year CA at American is furloughed and a 2 year CA at Eagle is furloughed and the only operation hiring is Mesa, they both start out at the same FO salary. That I think is garbage and a reason I hate the seniority system.

Sure, if another Major is hiring the American captain can go interview with them and so can the guy from Eagle. But he will be stuck at the back of the line with the rest of the new FO's. His experience got him there, but it is not being utilized how it should be. He should not be stuck in with 2,000 hour FO fresh from a regional, he should be put in the Captains chair, making close to what he made before because he has the experience and the ability to handle it.

If I stick with marketing, as I gain experience I have the ability to use that experience to change jobs and actually acheive a pay increase because of my experience. If that was the case with the airlines I think you would see a better QOL, because captains would not just be thinking about their place on the seniority list. It would place upward pressure on employers to pay us better also because they would know we would be more mobile.

I would love to see that changed. Unfortunately, with the current union mentality of screwing the little guy to get one more pay grade for the most senior captains I don't see this happening.
 
I don't call it screwing the little guy. . .it's called career protection. Flying the Line Vol I and II discuss these things much more than our little happy home of JC could ever.
 
And this is why airline flying sucks...next subject

Y'all can have ALPA and whatever makes you happy. I'll take the corporate world.
 
Matt13C said:
I hate the seniority system. ... I would love to see that changed. Unfortunately, with the current union mentality of screwing the little guy to get one more pay grade for the most senior captains I don't see this happening.
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You sound like flying for an airline is your only career choice. It's not. There is business aviation. And business aviation is still growing. And business aviation is merit based, not seniority based (in most all cases). Oh, but because of that it is also very competitive at all times. Much more competitive than getting into an airline. But if you work hard and pay your dues, maybe you'll be buzzing around in a GV or 7x someday!

More clearly put. Don't limit yourself. Aviation is very broad. There is a world of opportunity out there for us all. The list is long when you consider corporate flight departments, air charter companies, fractionals, agricultural flying, the airlines, managed aircraft companies, governmental agencies, and so on.
 
jtrain said:
I wouldn't rather die than go to work (here or at the freight company), I sure have wondered what in the world I'm doing with my life.
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Yeah sorry, that came out as another Polyannaish attack on your legitimate complaints. What I meant to say was that from everything I've heard from the regionals, they suck. Just offering an alternative. Certainly it has its own load of associated BS, and I'm definitely not interested in telling anyone they've nothing to complain about or what sort of attitude they "should" have. I also don't mean to turn this in to yet another "real men fly freight" chest-thumping session. Just meant to be an observation that if you're so inclined, freight generally doesn't keep you away from home as much, pays better at the lower experience levels, and generally doesn't involve • passengers, ground holds, sham bankruptcies, etc etc. Take it for what it's worth...if this were a freight thread I'm sure I'd find something to complain about.
 
TexasFlyer said:
You sound like flying for an airline is your only career choice. It's not. There is business aviation. And business aviation is still growing. And business aviation is merit based, not seniority based (in most all cases). Oh, but because of that it is also very competitive at all times. Much more competitive than getting into an airline. But if you work hard and pay your dues, maybe you'll be buzzing around in a GV or 7x someday!

More clearly put. Don't limit yourself. Aviation is very broad. There is a world of opportunity out there for us all. The list is long when you consider corporate flight departments, air charter companies, fractionals, agricultural flying, the airlines, managed aircraft companies, governmental agencies, and so on.
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I was just talking about the airlines because that is what dominated the recent conversation in this thread. My initial post was telling the OP to not just look at the airlines but all the other areas of professional flying. Thanks
 
Jtrain, have you tried Avantair? I kinda wish I was making 19,000 right now so I could go to them, and make it seem to my wife it's a huge pay raise! I had an interview with them lined up, but I couldn't fathom the pay schedule. It would've taken five years (even at captain) to make what i'm making now as a ground/sim instructor.
 
Front line management at my employer work 11 days straight 12hrs a day then they get 2 days off.
The entire time they are home they are on call. Of course the pay is better than regional F/O but the hours suck.
 
Jet-dreamer,

Of course there are crappy jobs out there. But, the responsibilities we carry and for what training/experience we've been through to get here its kinda ridiculous how management treats us(money, schedule) wise. I know it sounds like whining, but people need to hear these thing so change can come. Out of sight, out of mind doesn't help anyone especially us on the line...

Like I said, after you've done 6 legs(with quick turns thrown in) and a short overnight come back and tell me that the hours don't suck at the regional level too(unless your senior line-holder of course, unfortunately I'm not going to make it that far to find out).

And yes, there are plenty of other aviation jobs that are better(135, etc,). So I would just encourage others to look at those and not just regionals as good examples of nice aviation jobs out there...
 
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