XJT Rejects SKW's Takeover Bid
- Thread starter drl5555
- Start date
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I think I see what Krisite is saying. I used to be an instructor at Skymates, therefore I knew all the ins and outs along with the latest and greatest. Well, I'm not there anymore, but I still talk to people that are there. Policies have changed, they have different airplanes, etc. Now, I still talk to people that are there, but any knowledge I have is now second hand knowledge. Some people may misconstrue that as Skymates' official position on things based on my previous status there.
The same could be said of PCL and ALPA. I know he's no longer there, but some people can (and have, apparently) taken some of his opinions as that of ALPA itself. I agree with Josh that he often does a good job noting that it's his opinion (for example, it's not ALPA policy to deny non-union jumpseaters), but as we've seen in this thread there were a number of people that didn't know he was no longer ALPA.
It's stuff that gets lost in translation. Plus, keep in mind that experience with union vs non-union is gonna be different for pretty much EVERYONE. Just like some people like ATP while others think Skymates is the greatest flight school on the planet. It has to do with personal experience and outlook. If we all agreed on everything, what the hell else would I do to waste my time?
The same could be said of PCL and ALPA. I know he's no longer there, but some people can (and have, apparently) taken some of his opinions as that of ALPA itself. I agree with Josh that he often does a good job noting that it's his opinion (for example, it's not ALPA policy to deny non-union jumpseaters), but as we've seen in this thread there were a number of people that didn't know he was no longer ALPA.
It's stuff that gets lost in translation. Plus, keep in mind that experience with union vs non-union is gonna be different for pretty much EVERYONE. Just like some people like ATP while others think Skymates is the greatest flight school on the planet. It has to do with personal experience and outlook. If we all agreed on everything, what the hell else would I do to waste my time?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
For me, I have no problem with PCL no longer being at ALPA and talking about it some much. ALPA is a dinasour and probably not much has changed since he was an active member. Add to the fact that he still talks to lots of people over there (name dropping... tsk tsk...) he's probably still in the know. My problem is that HIS opinion (which he has said multiple times are just his opinions) are NOT what the public policy of ALPA is. Whether I agree with his opinion on various things or not, there is a huge disconnect between what he says and what ALPA does. And that's fine. However, there are MANY newbies on this forum that see the word "ALPA" and PCL's opinion in the same post and automatically link the two together. Is that PCL's problem? I certainly don't think so, but it doesn't help out with what the official voice of ALPA (whom ever that may be) is trying to do.
It's good to have the experience here though. It's just a matter of people having better reading comprehension I think.
) he's probably still in the know. My problem is that HIS opinion (which he has said multiple times are just his opinions) are NOT what the public policy of ALPA is. Whether I agree with his opinion on various things or not, there is a huge disconnect between what he says and what ALPA does. And that's fine. However, there are MANY newbies on this forum that see the word "ALPA" and PCL's opinion in the same post and automatically link the two together. Is that PCL's problem? I certainly don't think so, but it doesn't help out with what the official voice of ALPA (whom ever that may be) is trying to do.It's good to have the experience here though. It's just a matter of people having better reading comprehension I think.
Which is why once a thread gets much past three pages, it's time to take a fresh look at the issues at hand because people become so emotionally involved in it.
Presentation of information is absolutely everything.
Not only is the message important, almost more important is the actual delivery of the message. I carry an ALPA bat like everyone else, but I realize that there's a fine line between enthusiastically spreading the word about the necessity of organized labor in the airline business and giving the impression of being a bully.
We need to do a better job educating and less time threatening because each time we issue threats using things like jumpseats, preferential hiring, whatnot, the forces that are trying to diminish the role of organized labor win. Skywest will never be an ALPA carrier and it's our own fault. All they've got to do is say, "Google "Skywest ALPA" on the internet, do you really want to join THAT albatross of an organization with attitudes like that?"
Looking at the entire aviation internet over the past few years, we've looked like "The Borg" where if you're not with ALPA, you're against it and you need to be either assimilated or vanquished.
Instead of "join us and we'll craft a better tomorrow", it's been "you're stupid, you're going to wreck everything, you're not riding my jumpseat" from seasoned airline captains to student pilots parroting what they've heard on the internet.
Just take a peek at this thread. Expiration date on this puppy passed days ago and what do we have? Education? Nope. Just another outburst that we've all got to take responsibility for doing damage control.
Presentation of information is absolutely everything.
Not only is the message important, almost more important is the actual delivery of the message. I carry an ALPA bat like everyone else, but I realize that there's a fine line between enthusiastically spreading the word about the necessity of organized labor in the airline business and giving the impression of being a bully.
We need to do a better job educating and less time threatening because each time we issue threats using things like jumpseats, preferential hiring, whatnot, the forces that are trying to diminish the role of organized labor win. Skywest will never be an ALPA carrier and it's our own fault. All they've got to do is say, "Google "Skywest ALPA" on the internet, do you really want to join THAT albatross of an organization with attitudes like that?"
Looking at the entire aviation internet over the past few years, we've looked like "The Borg" where if you're not with ALPA, you're against it and you need to be either assimilated or vanquished.
Instead of "join us and we'll craft a better tomorrow", it's been "you're stupid, you're going to wreck everything, you're not riding my jumpseat" from seasoned airline captains to student pilots parroting what they've heard on the internet.
Just take a peek at this thread. Expiration date on this puppy passed days ago and what do we have? Education? Nope. Just another outburst that we've all got to take responsibility for doing damage control.
that's a perfect example of what i was trying to say.
i agree that MY presentation of what i was trying to say... STUNK...and i apologized for it already.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I agree we need a total overhaul on the education of what ALPA can do for you. Losing two organization drives in a year is like a kick in the nuts on that. Somewhere, we failed to deliver the message. I don't know if it was the message wasn't clear or in the delivery. I know in some cases I've heard, it was the delivery. Now, on things like "preferential hiring," I don't consider that a "threat." It's a benefit of being in ALPA. We're not saying we're NOT going to hire guys from non-union or non-ALPA carriers, just that ALPA guys get first dibs, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Now if we said "Only ALPA guys get hired," then we're shooting ourselves in the foot. Look what "preferential hiring" agreements do for regionals. We got an influx of starry eyed kids when they started touting the preferential hiring agreement with Delta in the recruiting message (never mind the fact that it's reciprocal in the case of a Delta furlough and every other DCI carrier pretty much has the same thing). If you present it in a "job security" way (Hey, if you vote ALPA in here, and the airline DOES start circling the drain, you've got options that put you ahead of the game), then it looks better.
Yup, we've got to do something different.
Heck, lost two organization drives and USAir all in the span of 12 months. THAT should be a wake up call to us all.
I guess I shouldn't have said, "preferential" hiring, but more or less some folks advocating NOT hiring pilots from non-union carriers.
Preferential hiring, safety issues, medical issues, etc good.
Fire, vitriol, jumpseat wars and goon squads bad.
Heck, lost two organization drives and USAir all in the span of 12 months. THAT should be a wake up call to us all.
I guess I shouldn't have said, "preferential" hiring, but more or less some folks advocating NOT hiring pilots from non-union carriers.
Preferential hiring, safety issues, medical issues, etc good.
Fire, vitriol, jumpseat wars and goon squads bad.