meyers9163
Well-Known Member
I recieved a telephone call today from a buddy of mine who is about to do the jetcourse through ATP. He still is working for ATP and is about to interview with my company in the next week. In talking he had mentioned he was glad I had posted some truths about ATP during my experience and glad I would speak about it openly on the forums. Also he commented I was making someones job a little more difficult with a few post I had made and when new students had called they had question. So I figured I'd take a few minutes and comment on both the good and the bad things I experienced while at atp as a student and also an instructor.
Positives:
There is no doubt that ATP has a program that will get you where you want to get. There is no one out there that can even compete with getting you your Multi Private to MEI as quick as they can. In addition there is no one who has the opportunity to get you into your seat as a FO as quick as they can.
The group of seminoles that ATP has is a great fleet. Even with the mx issues that will arise they do have a great group of seminoles. The older 79's are solid and the newer seminoles are great as well. In addition the fact of the matter is with that the amount of multi engine time you will get at ATP does indeed put a student into a better position to get to their next goal quicker.
Intergration of using the simulator while in training is another item I really liked while at ATP. I myself even though I got my IFR part 61 spent nearly 50 hours in a simulator (IFR/Comm requirements). This by far made my scan a billion times better and made the time in the plane more beneficial. In addition when I transitioned to a seminole from a cessna I found it to be a more difficult transition due to not having a simulator. By having the simulator you are able to spend valuable time in the sim and save your money by not going to the airplane until you are ready.
Set price. Although many may argue the actual price the fact of having a set price is a nice idea. I know myself when I went through my training I started out at a quote of approximately 20k and then that turned into 25k and ended up being around 30k for my private-MEI. However when I were going through this I had the ability to take my time and therefore getting money to cover the increase was easy for me. However those who give up a career to pursue aviation should be at ease knowing their price is set and will not increase by any means.
Managers.... The individual managers at each location I found to be very personable and enjoyable. I can personally speak about JAX and DAB. Both of the managers at these locations are very good professionals and would back their students and instructors. I know for a fact those in DAB are great and would go to battle for their instructors and assure issues were taken care of. By far even in my FBO days the two I had to deal with while in DAB were two of the best I had come across.
Locations.... Period, you cannot debate the fact that you can choose your location. The fact that we have so many locations across the US is great for any students who wish to stay close to home.
Students..... The fact of the matter is you are around students who want to pursue careers in aviation. You therefore are able to mix and speak about your career and love and passion for aviation. I know for a fact I enjoyed the students sharing the same common goal a career in professional aviation.
Housing..... I can only speak for the locations I stayed but I was very impressed with the housing at DAB/JAX. All by far exceeded my expectations....
Examiners... by far they have some of the best DPE's I've come across......
Negatives!!!!
MX... However this is an issue I believe you will get at many locations. I however found ATP to have a mechanic, Robert, who would love to say things are ok with a plane without really looking at it. AKA someone from DAB would call about a MP indication and he would say fly the plane its an instrumentation error and its ok. Well that's fine however you did not look at the aircraft itself and nor did you even bother to have me fly it up to Jax for you to look at. I can go on however the mx issues are more so about Instructors having issues with planes and head mx not addressing them in a proper way.
Upper mgt.... Honestly I was not pleased with those whom were the higher ups at the company. Specifially the two VP's of the company. The pressure they would put on Instructors to do certain things such as flying an airplane they found to be unfit for flight or yelling at two students who refused to fly an airplane they found lead in a fuel tank of they'd be removed from the program I found to be VERY unprofessional. I know they have a lot of pressure on them however perhaps need to re evaulate their approach to mangement and ways they do things. However I would go out of my way to say Derick is a GREAT guy.... Top notch and as good as they come.
Self Study.... This was not as big of an issue at our location. However I know before I had come to DAB they had issues with many instructors passing the buck to the student to just go home and do it themselves. I know while I was in DAB we had changed this and actually taken time to do ground and not worry about getting 100 hours of ME that month if we got 75 and all of our student passed we were much happier. However there are some locations where the instructors would care less if you passed and only are there to fly and get their time. This is discouraging as you are a paying customer and some, even those VP's, need to remember if you are only flying 75 hours and not 100's you might be spending your time helping your students do well. I would point this out as me and my add on instrucor (co worker) during my time signed nearly 50 students off and only had one bust. Not due to ground however due to his error in the plane. We found it to pay off doing the extra ground.
Cross Countries..... The fact is we have a set group of airports and thats where you are flying. You are spending a great deal of money we should really find a way to make it more flexible for students to go to locations they would choose to go as if they were PAYING for their multi engine time.... just a thought.
Overall....
I think if you are a person who is and feels you are in need of a fast career change this is the place for you. Only if you are stable and have the money. However if you have the time and want to find a place to do just the same amount of things and take it a little slower there are a BILLION different places to do your training...... Search, do some research and ASK questoins... Ultimately you are the paying customer and if you arent getting what you want and the answers you want... Go else where.... Its a great time to get into the industry however sometimes there's a need to do research and look around before jumping ship.... Its amazing how many places there are out there that can get you where you want to go.... JC is a great example as we have many advertisers you can attend and a group of pilots who can also recommend a great FBO.....
Positives:
There is no doubt that ATP has a program that will get you where you want to get. There is no one out there that can even compete with getting you your Multi Private to MEI as quick as they can. In addition there is no one who has the opportunity to get you into your seat as a FO as quick as they can.
The group of seminoles that ATP has is a great fleet. Even with the mx issues that will arise they do have a great group of seminoles. The older 79's are solid and the newer seminoles are great as well. In addition the fact of the matter is with that the amount of multi engine time you will get at ATP does indeed put a student into a better position to get to their next goal quicker.
Intergration of using the simulator while in training is another item I really liked while at ATP. I myself even though I got my IFR part 61 spent nearly 50 hours in a simulator (IFR/Comm requirements). This by far made my scan a billion times better and made the time in the plane more beneficial. In addition when I transitioned to a seminole from a cessna I found it to be a more difficult transition due to not having a simulator. By having the simulator you are able to spend valuable time in the sim and save your money by not going to the airplane until you are ready.
Set price. Although many may argue the actual price the fact of having a set price is a nice idea. I know myself when I went through my training I started out at a quote of approximately 20k and then that turned into 25k and ended up being around 30k for my private-MEI. However when I were going through this I had the ability to take my time and therefore getting money to cover the increase was easy for me. However those who give up a career to pursue aviation should be at ease knowing their price is set and will not increase by any means.
Managers.... The individual managers at each location I found to be very personable and enjoyable. I can personally speak about JAX and DAB. Both of the managers at these locations are very good professionals and would back their students and instructors. I know for a fact those in DAB are great and would go to battle for their instructors and assure issues were taken care of. By far even in my FBO days the two I had to deal with while in DAB were two of the best I had come across.
Locations.... Period, you cannot debate the fact that you can choose your location. The fact that we have so many locations across the US is great for any students who wish to stay close to home.
Students..... The fact of the matter is you are around students who want to pursue careers in aviation. You therefore are able to mix and speak about your career and love and passion for aviation. I know for a fact I enjoyed the students sharing the same common goal a career in professional aviation.
Housing..... I can only speak for the locations I stayed but I was very impressed with the housing at DAB/JAX. All by far exceeded my expectations....
Examiners... by far they have some of the best DPE's I've come across......
Negatives!!!!
MX... However this is an issue I believe you will get at many locations. I however found ATP to have a mechanic, Robert, who would love to say things are ok with a plane without really looking at it. AKA someone from DAB would call about a MP indication and he would say fly the plane its an instrumentation error and its ok. Well that's fine however you did not look at the aircraft itself and nor did you even bother to have me fly it up to Jax for you to look at. I can go on however the mx issues are more so about Instructors having issues with planes and head mx not addressing them in a proper way.
Upper mgt.... Honestly I was not pleased with those whom were the higher ups at the company. Specifially the two VP's of the company. The pressure they would put on Instructors to do certain things such as flying an airplane they found to be unfit for flight or yelling at two students who refused to fly an airplane they found lead in a fuel tank of they'd be removed from the program I found to be VERY unprofessional. I know they have a lot of pressure on them however perhaps need to re evaulate their approach to mangement and ways they do things. However I would go out of my way to say Derick is a GREAT guy.... Top notch and as good as they come.
Self Study.... This was not as big of an issue at our location. However I know before I had come to DAB they had issues with many instructors passing the buck to the student to just go home and do it themselves. I know while I was in DAB we had changed this and actually taken time to do ground and not worry about getting 100 hours of ME that month if we got 75 and all of our student passed we were much happier. However there are some locations where the instructors would care less if you passed and only are there to fly and get their time. This is discouraging as you are a paying customer and some, even those VP's, need to remember if you are only flying 75 hours and not 100's you might be spending your time helping your students do well. I would point this out as me and my add on instrucor (co worker) during my time signed nearly 50 students off and only had one bust. Not due to ground however due to his error in the plane. We found it to pay off doing the extra ground.
Cross Countries..... The fact is we have a set group of airports and thats where you are flying. You are spending a great deal of money we should really find a way to make it more flexible for students to go to locations they would choose to go as if they were PAYING for their multi engine time.... just a thought.
Overall....
I think if you are a person who is and feels you are in need of a fast career change this is the place for you. Only if you are stable and have the money. However if you have the time and want to find a place to do just the same amount of things and take it a little slower there are a BILLION different places to do your training...... Search, do some research and ASK questoins... Ultimately you are the paying customer and if you arent getting what you want and the answers you want... Go else where.... Its a great time to get into the industry however sometimes there's a need to do research and look around before jumping ship.... Its amazing how many places there are out there that can get you where you want to go.... JC is a great example as we have many advertisers you can attend and a group of pilots who can also recommend a great FBO.....
