good idea to fly with 777 captain?

Chris_Ford said:
Look a lot of the people on this website benefited from pure, unadulterated LUCK. A fork in the road and they chose the right one completely unknowingly. Now, however, they act as if it is their SKILL that got them to where they are. Not to mention that there's some sort of swagger of flying a larger airliner than someone else...
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True, luck undoubtedly plays a role in the life of every pilot who's made it in to the left seat of a major carrier. But don't you think there are actions each of those pilots took to "hedge their bets" so to speak? There are no guarantees in this industry, but there are certainly ways to improve one's odds.

I also find it interesting that not a single captain on here has been supportive of Intern_Mike or CheckSix's ideas. Not a single one. If they had all just randomly fallen in to their jobs, I'd expect them to be a lot more accepting of I_M/C_S's ideas.

Not saying that's conclusive proof that I_M/C_S is wrong, but it's definitely something I take note of.

I'm seeing captains with thousands upon thousands of hours under their belts, who've spent decades in the industry, who have worked for multiple airlines, saying "This isn't a good idea." Then I'm seeing a guy who has yet to finish training, and another guy who has worked as an FO for one airline for one year, saying, "It's ok, go for it."

Maybe those old guys did get to where they are because of luck, but when they unanimously agree on something, it's pretty convincing to me.
 
GJ1 said:
You guys do understand that you gotta pretty much pay to get any career job? I mean 100-150K in college to work 9-5?
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Yes, you have to pay for the education to get a job.

But once you get that education, the employer pays for your training. And they pay you to get that training.

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to accept anything less. I've gotten reimbursed by my employer for all sorts of training, and they are glad to do it.

Nobody should accpet anything less.
 
Check_Six said:
I see more problems with disconnecting the autopilot coming from experienced pilots who have been using automation for awhile now. They try to trouble shoot problems by messing with the buttons rather than disconnecting the system. In my opinion, new guys seem to be the one's with a tendency to click the red button when the automation is doing unexpected things.
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Actually, in my experience (which includes having been a check airman on MD-11s, amongst other things), it was the relatively NEWER pilots that would keep mucking with the automation trying to "fix it", rather than just click it all off. In fact, it was usually the younger, newer pilots, at that. Maybe the older ones, having not grown up with video games, etc., were faster to go to a more familiar mode. Those with more time on automation rarely got into the situation, but my experience was that when it DID happen, they knew the priority was flying the airplane.
 
seagull said:
Actually, in my experience (which includes having been a check airman on MD-11s, amongst other things), it was the relatively NEWER pilots that would keep mucking with the automation trying to "fix it", rather than just click it all off. In fact, it was usually the younger, newer pilots, at that. Maybe the older ones, having not grown up with video games, etc., were faster to go to a more familiar mode. Those with more time on automation rarely got into the situation, but my experience was that when it DID happen, they knew the priority was flying the airplane.
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I'll second that. Granted, I haven't actually flown with any FOs (other then in the sim) but from what I have seen while sitting in the jumpseat both at my airline and others is that the newer FOs are more likely to keep resetting flight control modes in the hope of the computer doing what they want while the more senior guys say "#### it" and hit the AP disconnect button and cancel the flight director.
 
seagull said:
Actually, in my experience (which includes having been a check airman on MD-11s, amongst other things), it was the relatively NEWER pilots that would keep mucking with the automation trying to "fix it", rather than just click it all off. In fact, it was usually the younger, newer pilots, at that. Maybe the older ones, having not grown up with video games, etc., were faster to go to a more familiar mode. Those with more time on automation rarely got into the situation, but my experience was that when it DID happen, they knew the priority was flying the airplane.
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oh yeah . . . well . . . . well . . . . you're just old and bitter that you couldn't get the job as easy as me:crazy: . . .

and besides, what do you know about the new training anyway, you have been in the business for far to long to understand that the new way is better than your old school way . . .:insane:

and you're just jealous that I have money and you don't . . .:buck:


the salesman at the big pretty expensive school told me so:rotfl:


I want that!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!:D
 
BobDDuck said:
newer FOs are more likely to keep resetting flight control modes in the hope of the computer doing what they want while the more senior guys say "#### it" and hit the AP disconnect button and cancel the flight director.
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I would probably tend to agree with that for the most part..

I came into the RJ from a world of very little automation.. The automation was the thing that gave me fits at first in the sim..

I, like what you guys are speaking of, would sit there and try and figure out which buttons to push to make it do what I wanted it to do.. However, I was such a consumate newb that I had no idea what sequence of pushes needed to be applied..

I did this about two times until it bunged me up so well that I went back to the roots - fly the friggin plane.. After I got to where if the AP started doing something stupid or odd, clicky click click to the ap, nix the FD and away we went..
 
seagull said:
Actually, in my experience (which includes having been a check airman on MD-11s, amongst other things), it was the relatively NEWER pilots that would keep mucking with the automation trying to "fix it", rather than just click it all off. In fact, it was usually the younger, newer pilots, at that. Maybe the older ones, having not grown up with video games, etc., were faster to go to a more familiar mode. Those with more time on automation rarely got into the situation, but my experience was that when it DID happen, they knew the priority was flying the airplane.
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Hey Seagull...good to see you.

Seagull's got a lot of time in this industry...if anyone has any questions...he'd be a great guy to seek input from.

Referencing the above post...this happened to me going into Milan a couple of months ago. The autopilot captured the localizer and glideslope...but the speed started dropping off. Ten knots...going towards 15 kts slow. Couldn't figure it out.

The autothrottles should go into a speed mode at glideslope capture. They didn't...they stayed in idle mode.

Click, click. Off comes the automation...add some power...all is well.

A classic example of "fly the airplane" first. At any stage in flying...Cessna 150 to a big jet...aviation's "golden rule" is so applicable.
 
Check_Six said:
Hey Intern_Mike!

I get the feeling that you may no longer be following the responses on this thread. In all fairness, that probably isn't a bad thing. But here's my input...

This thread reminded me of why I rarely stop by this forum anymore.

JetCareers is a forum which I find exemplifies both the best and the WORST of of what pilots have to offer each other. On one hand, there is quality advice to be given and received. On the other, there are many, many people on this forum who are simply INTOLERANT of any method that isn't/wasn't their own. Many of the posters on here huff and puff about their illustrious careers (ex: "Well, I guess you don't want the advice of a real man as evidenced by my ability to command mighty Boeing/Airbus aircraft...blah, blah, blah). :banghead:

I'm pretty sure that none of those posting on this forum were being hired by majors back in the '60s. My old man (just outta the USAF with 3,000TT/2950ME/2000-ish Turbine PIC) was hired by United back then, and many of the guys he spent the next 35 years competing for schedules and aircraft with were hired with 300 TT and no instrument rating. UAL was actually helping new-hires with the IR ticket. And guess what, many of those people retired with him 30-40 years later as captains on 747-400s. Not too shabby. I'm sure they had a steeper learning curve at the beginning, but they still had a very successful career.

Some of my other favorites on here are those that pigeon-hole you based on where you trained, whether or not you want to be a CFI, etc. etc.

You will also find many people on here who apparently came from less than financially endowed backgrounds (as I have never seen so much hatred for those who have/spend money as I do on this board). If you or your family have the money to spend on things like attending FSA and completing sim courses, then more power to you. Those without love to put you down to make themselves feel better about their lives. Good for them for being frugal, but if you've got the means then do what you want.

In response to your situation:

I congratulate you on being successful at FSA! It's a good program (I went there back in '00-'01) and had a blast. I had a great time both with the flying and because of the friends I made.

I'd ignore the people giving you crap about how much FSA costs. Do your training wherever makes you happy/successful regardless of price. If you can afford FSA and they couldn't...well, that's good for you. If you've got a ton of money, but prefer the FBO route then do that instead. It's not wasting money if the perceived value of the final product is what YOU want. Also, if you can't afford FSA I wouldn't financially drown myself trying to get there...same reason why I don't drive any of the cars showcased each month in the Robb Report ;)

As for being a CFI, I instructed for six years (I did it for so long because I love to teach). If you enjoy flying piston aircraft and most importantly love to teach, then PLEASE spend some time as a CFI before going to the airlines. Quality CFIs are in short supply. It sounds like being a CFI isn't really your interest, though. I can respect that as it's not for everyone. Half the people on this board who say that being a CFI before going to the airlines is an absolute must were probably crappy instructors. They might be good pilots, or even great pilots, but many instructors I've met are poor teachers and students would have been better off without them. If you really have an interest in crop dusting, flying traffic watch, etc. then feel free to pursue those options too.

I'd say, if you want to take the RJ sim course route, then study hard (especially IFR procedures), pay attention in the ground school , and focus much of your attention on how to operate the avionics effectively...since the flight guidance controller (basically the autopilot interface) is where most piston pilots struggle. Examples being what modes to use during each phase of flight and why (a lot of it ends up being pilot preference).

Anyways, don't be discouraged by what you read here on JetCareers. Glean advice from those able to give it without injecting a ridiculous amount of :sarcasm:, flight-school hating, or financial jealousy into their comments.

Best of luck to you! :rawk:
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The voice of reason... You should probably post here more! lol

See I dont' really want to flight instruct, I'm not a good teacher at all.

Its not that i want to fly a shiny jet asap, its just i dont want to putter around in a 172 for 5 years telling some random kid how to fly.. lol
 
"Because he's on the highest horse of them all.

Look a lot of the people on this website benefited from pure, unadulterated LUCK. A fork in the road and they chose the right one completely unknowingly. Now, however, they act as if it is their SKILL that got them to where they are. Not to mention that there's some sort of swagger of flying a larger airliner than someone else..."

I love you too, Chrissy pooo.
 
"See I dont' really want to flight instruct, I'm not a good teacher at all."

Then you shouldn't. I think CheckSix alluded to that. We don't need folks instructing who really don't have a passion for it. That said, it's a great experience. My problem is more with low time pilots who have no/little real world experience being airline jet F/O's. I did very little instructing, myself, but I spent a year doing scenic tours in the Grand Canyon. I was a great experience builder, confidence builder, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
 
"Anyways, don't be discouraged by what you read here on JetCareers. Glean advice from those able to give it without injecting a ridiculous amount of , flight-school hating, or financial jealousy into their comments"

Geeezzz. All I said to the guy was he shouldn't be knockin' a 73 Cadet as worthy, and to do so somewhat speaks to his attitude about flying.
 
GJ1 said:
The voice of reason... You should probably post here more! lol

See I dont' really want to flight instruct, I'm not a good teacher at all.

Its not that i want to fly a shiny jet asap, its just i dont want to putter around in a 172 for 5 years telling some random kid how to fly.. lol
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I don't think that anyones saying instruct for 5 years. I had my doubts about instructing when I first started also. But I have to tell you ,point blank, that I would not be half the pilot that I am today if I didn't instruct. I'm happy I challenged myself to be the very best instructor I possibly could. I only instructed for a little over a year to get to 1200hrs. I believe kelwolf instructed maybe six months to get to 700+hrs.

There is also a lot of money to be made in instructing. I'd done it for longer if I was getting paid the type of money that some of these instructors are making these days.
 
As to the benefit of being a flight engineer. Sadly, none of the up and comers on this board will have the chance to find out.

I was a 727 F/E for four years (by choice) and made it to number two in the seat at UPS. It was a great experience as in that it's a good place to sit back and take a lot in about how to fly the jet. I don't know how many times I sat back there and thought to myself "he should add power or we're gonna hit pretty hard", or, "I'd be using speedbrakes right now". I think there's a lot you can learn about flying a Boeing by sitting in the F/E seat. Great place to start out if you have the right attitude about it.
 
I honestly think that i would have a little swagger if i flew a big azz Boeing or the like.:yup: FLY SAFE T.C.
 
GJ1 said:
See I dont' really want to flight instruct, I'm not a good teacher at all.
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I think a lot of us who instructed thought this same thing early on in our career. As a private pilot it seems like a big task to take on. All I would suggest is don't completely rule it out for the future because you may change your mind.
 
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