Soul Brotha'
Off to go do Black guy stuff
The rest of our trip was really quiet after that.
skybus
- Thread starter drhunterr
- Start date
FlySmiley
New Member
I heard a bunch of guys were promised to be captains there, even had hiring letters to that effect, and are being kept as FO's by the company to save some $$ until more airplanes start showing up. Also, somthing about some FO's ending up with higher seniority numbers than some of the captains... Seems that a lot of the people going there are furloughed and jumping ship once they get recalled (US Airways et al). Even heard of one or two jumping ship to Virgin America of all places.
Velocipede
New Member
You guys said it first, but "I've got to take care of my family." is the #1 excuse SCABS use when crossing picket lines.
That's why I refer to Skybus, Virgin and jetBlue as "protoscab" outfits. They don't worry about stabbing Union guys in the back, why would they hesitate to cross our picket lines.
Please don't give jumpseat rides to protoscabs.
That's why I refer to Skybus, Virgin and jetBlue as "protoscab" outfits. They don't worry about stabbing Union guys in the back, why would they hesitate to cross our picket lines.
Please don't give jumpseat rides to protoscabs.
Well investors clearly have sunk money into it - that's how they got started. Now will the open stock market invest money in it via an IPO is a whole different question. In general (and Warren Buffet agrees with me) airlines are a piss poor investment vehicles (but somebody keeps investing in them).
*I* wouldn't go to Skybus for the stock options, but I don't own any 10 year Microsoft stock or 10 year Apple stock - so clearly my investing choices aren't always correct.
Seems many on here think that unions are the end all panacea to pitiful contracts. Why then do the pilots represented by Teamsters @ Great Lakes make only $1,125/mo. for their first year? If they make $15k that YEAR, they will have pulled off an amazing feat. So much for Teamsters making it happen.
I'll say it again: as long as gulfstream and great lakes have pilots, why would pay ever go up?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
You'll never see me defend the teamsters. They don't have a clue how to represent air line pilots, and they don't really seem to even care. They left the AFL-CIO a couple of years ago and they still owe millions of dollars in dues that they never paid. It's a corrupt organization that could really care less about the overall labor movement.
CAL captain and Velocipede, what should a start up pay their pilots? In 5 years from now if I go to Skybus and they pay double of what they're paying now, am I going to be called a scab? I think Skybus has a solid foundation and I would think a good business model. I think SW demonstrated that Skybus wants to take it further.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
SWA and Skybus' business models aren't even in the same ballpark. SWA found a way to offer airline service for a lower price. It was essentially the same service for less money and gimmicky ad campaigns. It worked. Now they've got their branding in place and are considered the "go to" airline when it comes to discount carriers, even though they MAY even be more expensive than Delta or AA on the same route.
Skybus' business model is to charge rock bottom and then charge again for the extras. SWA still gives drinks, food, etc for free on their plane. They'll also let you bring your own food on board. Skybus does neither of those. Southwest will let you check bags and carry-ons for free. Not Skybus. Just b/c the ticket prices are cheap doesn't mean the business models are comparable. Skybus is going off of Ryanair's model in Europe, which is a different consumer mindset than America. I honestly don't think Skybus is gonna be around for long, especially when a passenger gets off and says "Wait, this isn't Vancouver! Where am I?"
A lot of people use the "well if unions are so good, then why does XXXX have a crappy contract." Easy answer: the MEC and the negotiating committee at that airline wanted something other than higher wages. In Mesa's case it was job security from a corrupt CEO's bait and switch along with a quick upgrade. They threw the junior guys under the bus so they could get their time and get out. You're only as good as your local reps. If your local reps don't do their jobs, then you're not gonna be happy. Ask US Air as that's what happened to them. It's up to the members to take charge of their union, not the other way around. If you sit around waiting for ALPA to wave a magic wand to improve the airline, you'll be waiting a while.
SeanD
Well-Known Member
I have my doubts Skybus will be around in 5 years. There are far too many factors in play to go against them succeeding. Number 1, Southwest Airlines. Number 2, Allegiant. Number 3, a somewhat saturated market. Time will tell I suppose but I would not put my bets on success for Skybus.
That's why they have former SW management. Anyways my point is that while the pay is substandard for now, they shouldn't be associated with scabs. Some people that honestly want to look into these companies might be seriously misinformed when they see the word scab. VA and Skybus are legitimate places. I'm cursious to see what CALcaptian and velocipede has to say.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I wouldn't exactly say a former director of flight ops, regional marketing director and MX director were "SWA management," yeah they were IN management, but they didn't make any of the big decisions like what routes to start, how many planes to put on those routes and which cities to look at in the future. The guy they have as their VP of airport/ground ops, well, manager of ramp and ops at SWA is pretty much a glorified ramp sup with an office.
If you re-read what Velo said, he calls them "proto-scabs." His point (which I don't 100% agree with, but he's entitled to it) is that the non-union carriers are using union negotiated benefits, such as jumpseats, and free loading off what the unions have worked hard to attain.
I think Skybus has THREE former SWA guys. Big whoop. My airline had a former NBC exec and we're not writing sitcoms.
They cashed out and now they've got time for a 'pet project'. Win, lose, or draw, they'll still walk away with plenty of cash from their previous venture to retire quite respectably. Now if it was Herb Kelleher, it'd be a different situation entirely because he can motivate people.
I think Skybus might be a threat in a $65/barrel oil environment, but with $80-plus, you can't make a profit by charging a low price for a high cost product.
They cashed out and now they've got time for a 'pet project'. Win, lose, or draw, they'll still walk away with plenty of cash from their previous venture to retire quite respectably. Now if it was Herb Kelleher, it'd be a different situation entirely because he can motivate people.
I think Skybus might be a threat in a $65/barrel oil environment, but with $80-plus, you can't make a profit by charging a low price for a high cost product.
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
You are blaming the wrong group of people. The IBT is only the backer. The people responsible for the bad contracts are the pilot groups themselves.
Who wrote the language? The Union negotiating team.
Who is the UNT? Pilots
Who elected the MEC? The pilots
Who gives the MEC the leverage to secure a contract? The pilots
If the pilots elect a good EB/MEC, and that group can keep the pilots unified, then you earn a decent contract.
If you don't have a good MEC/EB and the pilots are not unified, you get a substandard contract.
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
I want to fly from Boston to Tampa. Oh wait you are actually going from Portsmouth NH to Punta Gorda FL. Both are 1+ hour drives from where you really want to be. Plus who wants to go to Columbus OH?
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
Well, because I've got to buy a ticket from Portsmouth to Columbus and then Columbus to Punta Gorda!
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
Well, because I've got to buy a ticket from Portsmouth to Columbus and then Columbus to Punta Gorda!
Actually they are starting PSM - whatever that place is in FL. Looked into that because PSM is fairly close to us (3 hours) and for 10 bucks if Punta Gorda was anywhere close to TPA I might take them up on that offer. Sanford FL is actually closer and Allegiant is starting BGR-SFB in November.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
From the Merriam-Webster definition of "scab:" (with applicable sections in bold)
3 a : a contemptible person b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms
Seems that it fits the dictionary definition of the term, whether the Skybus • want to admit it or not. Besides, no one here is calling them actual "scabs." Velo calls them proto-scabs, and I call them pseudo-scabs. They're basically just as bad as SCABs, but we use a different term to differentiate between them. What they're doing is hardly better than what a "true" SCAB does, though.
No they aren't. They're bottom-feeder, nonunion, scumbag operations. They don't deserve the respect of true professionals, and they should be treated as the pseudo-SCABs that they are.