Speaking of Regional Pay...
- Thread starter Airdale
- Start date
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Yes. . .pilots retire and move into Flight Operation positions. . .some even make it up to VP of Flight operations.
They usually turn their back (like all corporate leaders who once worked the trenches, or even any military member who leaves the lower ranks to a higher position) on those who they once worked with - only to screw the profession in the end.
Makes no sense at all to me. But it feels so good to have somebody to blame. Because if you took responsibility for your own situation and pilots did so as a group, well......that might be hard. And not feel good.
Of course it wouldn't feel good, but I think a majority of us were brought up to accept our faults, deal with it, and fix it. Acknowledge when you're wrong, and acknowledge when you need someone's help.
I think pilots throughout this country have done loads to take responsibility for any problems they themselves have generated. But, they didn't generate the ignorance that usually exists in management circles.
flyover
New Member
Yeah I get it. Sure we have a few faults and self-induced problems, but by and large the blame falls elsewhere. Particularly with ingnoramus, evil management types who hate pilots. I believe you've got a bead on the real problem and thus good solutions are bound to be coming! :nana2:
bigbobby03
New Member
Reading all of the posts on here about pay makes me mad. Don't get me wrong, I wish that I got paid more, but you have to realize that the market won't support higher pay. You can skip college, go to ATP and be flying at a regional in a year or two and you expect to make $50,000 a year? If that was a case, then there would be thousands of pilots signing up a year, and good luck getting any kind of a job without going to the military. I do think that $20,000 for the first year is a little low, but in the long run, you can make a lot money in this industry. I enjoy reading this forum, but some of you have got to get real.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
"...Get real."
Two steps forward, two steps back. . .
I'm sure you'd be happy at a non-union company too huh?
Two steps forward, two steps back. . .
I'm sure you'd be happy at a non-union company too huh?
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Simma down there Velocipede Jr!!!
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Airdale
Well-Known Member
Well, just be happy flyin yer jet for $20k a year buddy!
In case you didn't realize, this is a very highly regarded profession. Not everyone can strap into an Airliner and make life or death situations when it matters most. Hell, half the morons that are putting around the sky don't know what the hell they're doing! Granted there are some Professional Airline pilots that slip through the cracks, but for the most part, this career field isn't for everyone. Sure the Regionals might not require a 4 year degree, but the Majors do. If you're a bonehead that thinks obtaining a 4 year degree makes you a "Professional Airline Pilot", you're a real bonehead. It takes a lot more then book smart knowledge to be a pilot on a Professional level. I think us Professional Pilots deserve more money than we get credit for. Just ask Seggy or any other Captain at a Regional slugging it out in the trenches. The decisions they are faced with everyday can effect many many lives. Some lives which may affect yours.
You can't put a price on a human life, but the Regionals do it all the time with sub $30k wages.
Snuggle
Well-Known Member
Side note: Last week was my 6 month mark at Colgan. YTD gross pay (including overages) $9,082 :nana2:
Not to disagree with you about the low pay or anything.. but our pay is a little behind. So technically unless you are counting your next months pay checks, isn't that 5 months worth of pay?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Actually, I've seen managment's bonuses here. I think the industry COULD support higher wages. The only problem is managment's gonna see less in their pocket. Given that most of our day is spent fixing issues that management ignores (wrongly deferred MELs, poor training in dispatch, customer service issues that management refuses to acknowledge, trying to keep planes on schedule, etc), I'd rather see that money go to us rather than the guys that pretend everything is hunky dory in their ivory tower. They're insisting that we're so properly staffed that we're back to 1000/200 for mins unless you've been through a bridge program. Meanwhile, everyone that tries to drop a trip gets "denied due to staffing," MSP can't keep CAs or FOs to save their lives, and the last vacancy has 121 open positions. To me, that says management is out of touch with the operation of their airline and doesn't deserve their bonuses and stock options.
It's not an increase in ticket prices, etc. It's a re-allocation of where the money goes.
As for pilots becoming management, we've got that here, too. Guy loses his medical, goes to management and now stabs the line guys in the back at every opportunity. I actually heard one guy say "I hope that guy chokes on a Twinkie."
It's not an increase in ticket prices, etc. It's a re-allocation of where the money goes.
As for pilots becoming management, we've got that here, too. Guy loses his medical, goes to management and now stabs the line guys in the back at every opportunity. I actually heard one guy say "I hope that guy chokes on a Twinkie."
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
You guys need to get past the first year pay. It sucks. Move on with life. Everyone has a choice at the regionals: go to a Company that has "good" second year pay, or go to a Company that has a quick upgrade that will allow you to make Captain after 1-2 years thereby off setting the lower second year pay.
Complaining won't make the pay get any better. In actuality, it just makes "you" (not directed at anyone, honestly, just a general "you") look stupid. How many people have heard this: "First year pay sucks! Waaah waah waah!"..."I start class on Monday"...or "I've been here 6 years". WTF? I've been fortunate enough to mostly fly with guys that appreciate working as a pilot, and know that pay comes secondary. How many mainline guys flat out QUIT when their pay was cut in half? Answer: not many. They still do the same job for half the compensation...ask yourself why.
Complaining won't make the pay get any better. In actuality, it just makes "you" (not directed at anyone, honestly, just a general "you") look stupid. How many people have heard this: "First year pay sucks! Waaah waah waah!"..."I start class on Monday"...or "I've been here 6 years". WTF? I've been fortunate enough to mostly fly with guys that appreciate working as a pilot, and know that pay comes secondary. How many mainline guys flat out QUIT when their pay was cut in half? Answer: not many. They still do the same job for half the compensation...ask yourself why.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
With the exception of Mesa and Pinnacle, I'd say that's not true. Skywest and XJT both have excellent second year FO pay and not-so-slow upgrade times.
I'll answer the why: b/c they still made more as a major CA/FO than they would as a regional FO. If they quit, where could they go? This industry isn't like others where you can get a job and negotiate your salary based on experience. If all of your experience is in the airline industry as a pilot, what other job can you get making what you would be making after the cuts? Odds are no one socked money aside to start their own business since they weren't expected to have their wages slashed by a bankruptcy court judge. So, what other options do they have? Wal-Mart greeter? Home Depot? Both entry levels pay less than mainline, even now.
The arguement doesn't make sense. No one is gonna say "Well, they slashed my pay, so I'm gonna slash my own pay even more by leaving." That doesn't add up. Now, how many guys stayed in long enough to get money to go do something else, or took an early retirement package? That's the real question.
If Pinnacle slashed my pay, I'd leave tomorrow. Why? B/c I could start over at somewhere like Skywest, XJT or NetJets without losing too much. The guys at mainline have a bit more invested and tend to stand losing a bit more than a regional FO.
higney85
Property of Scheduling
By math this last vacancy is looking for about 10% of our current seniority list... But we don't have a staffing problem. A planning guy was saying they are looking at about 40% of the current seniority list timing out or hitting 1000 at the very end of the year. December will be interesting....
anic:The thing about pay that chaps my ass is that mgmt conveys to the public that we work just 40 hours a week, and allude that we get paid 40/wk. Pay is not going to rise until people can strike or planes start crashing (totally my opinion and I don't wish it on anyone).
They don't necessarily 'troll' the forums, but I know when I contacted a regional airline about doing some recruiting in Las Vegas next month, I did get the "Hey, what's up with the thread about..." from the person I spoke to!
Propilot
Well-Known Member
The wage is what our market based economy will allow. Doesnt matter what it "should" be. Your job is to try and get as much as you can, and managements job is to try and pay as little as they can.
Police Officers and Firefighters should be paid more, and sports stars less. Doesnt matter though.
It's a market based economy.
Police Officers and Firefighters should be paid more, and sports stars less. Doesnt matter though.
It's a market based economy.
deek
New Member
Propilot strikes again. It's right, it's a capital society and money is going to go where the market says it will. If in the future they make planes cheaper and ticket prices go up and travel goes up and operational costs come down, there will be some extra money and the unions will get some to go into your pockets, but if there is more terrorist attacks or people won't pay high-prices for tickets or something else, like a global pandemic, or what if a f'in metor strikes? Just saying there are many forces that control a pilot's pay and pilots or the union only have control over a few of them. The market is gonna win every time.
A planning guy was saying they are looking at about 40% of the current seniority list timing out or hitting 1000 at the very end of the year. December will be interesting....
I told my parents about this but they didnt listen and bought tickets on Northwest to florida over christmas. I cant wait to see what happens.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Well, if they don't have to fly on a PCL CRJ, they'll probably be okay. Otherwise....well, Uncle Phil's gonna need a Christmas miracle.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
But as long as they saved $50 on their ticket, right?
I've never understood the mindset of flying through Timbuktu to save $20 on a ticket. Your time and the hassle factor are worth something. If I'm flying on the company dime, then they're paying, so I don't care. And if I'm flying on my dime for vacation, the more time I spend on vacation and not in an airport, the better so I will gladly pay up!
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
My old company was strict on absolutely lowest fare. Dumb.
My new company gives me discretionary authority up to $450 for a ticket - anything over that, I have to get approved which takes a phone call and 30 seconds and minor justification - "yeah, there's a ticket which is $150 cheaper, but that means I'm in the hotel with the car and meals for another day....fine....thanks."
I love it.