Speaking of Regional Pay...

Airdale

Airdale

Well-Known Member
What do YOU think is a fair wage for the most typical type of Regional operated aircraft for both First Officer and Captain? Lets use 4 years for a Captain and 1st/2nd year for an FO and assume its a CRJ-200/EMB-145. Disregarding current Major Airline Pay.


The reason I bring this up, is on average, it appears as though the Regional carriers operating these aircraft pay between $55,000-$65,000 for 4th yr Captains and $19,000-$24,000 1st yr and $28,000-$33,000 2nd yr FO. Pilot groups are demanding better wage compensation (in addition to work rules). While we would all love to see $75k+ for 4th year Captain pay, I just don't see it being feasible with current Major Airline pay.

If these salaries are unfair, then what is fair and why?
 
My knee-jerk reaction says first year FO's are worth atleast $30,000 and should see somewhere between a 20-30% increase yearly. Captains are worth around $65,000 for a 30-50 seater (more for larger planes) also with a 20-30% pay increase every year.
 
$50,000 for an FO to start and $100,000 for first year ca sounds about right to me, with 6% compensation increases annually. That would almost double most regional's pilot labor costs though. At regionals I think labor is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2/3 of the total budget of the airline, since so much of the fuel and equipment is subsidized. I'd imagine pilots' salaries make up at least 1/2 of those 2/3, so it's hard to say if those kind of salaries would be negotiable, although the old comair contract was somewhat in the ballpark. I think I would be pretty satisfied with my compensation if it was at those levels.
 
I dont think 90K is unreasonable for a 4th year captain on a 50 seat country-crossing airliner...which pretty much describes every mini-major out there.

I would like to see first year pay in the 40K range for first year FO's.

These numbers absolutly DO NOT include any per-diem and should probably be figured for a line holder being paid 1,000 hours a year.

Of course pay is only a small part of the question...work rules and duty rigs are equally if not more important. If your gonna be doing 20 hour duty days for your 4 days on and getting done at 11:30 pm then having 3 days off only to be required to be back at 12:30 am on your first day it doesn't matter how much they pay. I think an hourly stipend of like 15 bucks an hour for anything over 11 hours would be a good start. And rest starts when you get to the hotel...not 15 minutes after the brakes are set.


In all honestly though none of it is going to happen. With the increase in travel and the constant number of available arrivals and departures at the major hubs I see a trend towards bigger less frequent flights. Eventually I think slot control at the major airports will fix the RJ problem as the flying public and congress pressure the FAA to fix the delays and cancellations at big airports.
 
Texasspilot said:
I dont think 90K is unreasonable for a 4th year captain on a 50 seat country-crossing airliner...which pretty much describes every mini-major out there.

I would like to see first year pay in the 40K range for first year FO's.

These numbers absolutly DO NOT include any per-diem and should probably be figured for a line holder being paid 1,000 hours a year.

Of course pay is only a small part of the question...work rules and duty rigs are equally if not more important. If your gonna be doing 20 hour duty days for your 4 days on and getting done at 11:30 pm then having 3 days off only to be required to be back at 12:30 am on your first day it doesn't matter how much they pay. I think an hourly stipend of like 15 bucks an hour for anything over 11 hours would be a good start. And rest starts when you get to the hotel...not 15 minutes after the brakes are set.


In all honestly though none of it is going to happen. With the increase in travel and the constant number of available arrivals and departures at the major hubs I see a trend towards bigger less frequent flights. Eventually I think slot control at the major airports will fix the RJ problem as the flying public and congress pressure the FAA to fix the delays and cancellations at big airports.
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I completely agree. However, with that being said- if RJs are forced out of slots at major airports we will see mass furloughs from the regionals. i.e: NY Port Authority's Plan to eliminate all 50 and less seat aircraft from operating from the major 3. For us at Colgan, that could be a serious issue.
 
SmitteyB said:
i.e: NY Port Authority's Plan to eliminate all 50 and less seat aircraft from operating from the major 3. For us at Colgan, that could be a serious issue.
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They aren't going to limit 50 seat or less aircraft. They are going to require that a certain percentage of a companies lift be greater then X number of seats. I've heard 76 and 108 for that number so I really don't know. Also, they were going to offer companies a way to buy down their percentage if they still wanted to send more small aircraft in.
 
BobDDuck said:
They aren't going to limit 50 seat or less aircraft. They are going to require that a certain percentage of a companies lift be greater then X number of seats. I've heard 76 and 108 for that number so I really don't know. Also, they were going to offer companies a way to buy down their percentage if they still wanted to send more small aircraft in.
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Ok, I have heard all three, but 50 seemed to be the most thrown around number. It doesn't help it when American is sending out 6 MD82 DFW flights in an hour and a half either.

(At least: They did when I was there two weeks ago)
 
Using a highly scientific method (counting departures at flightstats.com) I've come up with the following

Between 9am and Noon:

US: 7
USX: 15

AA: 14
AA Connection/Eagle: 13

DAL: 9
DAL Connection: 9
 
BobDDuck said:
Using a highly scientific method (counting departures at flightstats.com) I've come up with the following

Between 9am and Noon:

US: 7
USX: 15

AA: 14
AA Connection/Eagle: 13

DAL: 9
DAL Connection: 9
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I really dont understand why Airways has such a hard on for LGA anyways because of its limited space. Why not just send everything to Philadelphia to catch connections from there?

Speaking of Regoinal Pay...sorry for the thread hijack.
 
In that same time period over at PHL there were 34 mainline departures and 45 express. And that's not even a real bank departure time.

And besides, you are more likely to make your flight/keep your bag connecting through LGA then PHL. The real question is why doesn't Airways route more traffic through PIT, but I think that's a lost cause now.
 
Airways own PHL, hands down. They create their own delays there by the number of flights they have, including Express.

While I would love to see six figures for a Regional jet pilot, it just won't happen. Mainline would have to seriously up their pay before something like that happened. Again, I think the problem is with the RJ's. The aircraft are worthy of a highly paid pilot, but in a Regional budget fleet, it won't happen. Plus, if the Regional's did pay that much, nobody would want to leave for the Majors. Therefore the Majors would have to raise their pay exponentially above the Regionals to draw applicants.

Unfortunately in today's economy, the blue collar workers are getting their paychecks picked apart by the government and Corporate America has shifted their focus to pay employees less and bank more cash for the CEO's and stockholders. The economy needs a serious pay increase for middle class workers to keep up with the high cost of living increases. This affects the Airlines because people aren't willing to pay higher fares. Its a nasty cycle.

Basically, Corporate America = Bad. Companies no longer care about the quality of life of their employees.
 
I know you probably didnt REALLY mean 20-30%, did you? If you did, by the 11th year as a regional captain, you'd be making $407,500 per year, and $1,164,904 by your 15th. Sign me up!
 
BobDDuck said:
In that same time period over at PHL there were 34 mainline departures and 45 express. And that's not even a real bank departure time.

And besides, you are more likely to make your flight/keep your bag connecting through LGA then PHL. The real question is why doesn't Airways route more traffic through PIT, but I think that's a lost cause now.
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I read an artical that asked Dougie Parker the same question. He said that PIT just doesn't have the necessary local traffic to make it viable to increase flights into and out of PIT. It's not a money maker. Most passengers are connecting through. I think it's BS. The same could be said for CVG and DL. CVG has most of the highest fares out of most hub airports in the country. If PIT's not a money maker, how was USAir able to make it a major hub in the 80's and 90's?
 
H46Bubba said:
I read an artical that asked Dougie Parker the same question. He said that PIT just doesn't have the necessary local traffic to make it viable to increase flights into and out of PIT. It's not a money maker. Most passengers are connecting through. I think it's BS. The same could be said for CVG and DL. CVG has most of the highest fares out of most hub airports in the country. If PIT's not a money maker, how was USAir able to make it a major hub in the 80's and 90's?
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If US Airways could offer competetive fares for passengers originating in Pittsburgh then they would get the "local traffic".

Just charge what you want to charge for those connecting through PIT.
 
The PIT airport authority hosed over Airways BIG time with landing fees, taxes, and the like.

To give you an example. The PIT airport merchants have to open their books to the airport authority and they take a percentage of the sales on top of the rent.
 
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