Instructing pet peeves.....

I don't care how you do it yourself, but when you are teaching students you have the responsibility to make sure that they are able to fly the aircraft in a safe manner at all times.
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oh so true. there are so many things i find i don't do myself because i was never taught to do so, BUT i do teach those things to my students. argh, primacy at it's best!
 
jrh said:
I don't think he's saying to fly everything like a P-51.
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That’s the major thrust of his argument, which is why he led with the crash and returns to it several times; his actual motivation, I suspect, is that he strongly believes that everyone should fly like he does and he’ll grab any argument that will do. ;) I find it particularly amusing that he criticizes a “one-size-fits-all” sort of procedure, then proceeds to recommend one.

Although it sounds enlightened to encourage pilots to engage in decision-making, it’s exhausting to have to agonize over every piloting action that you plan to take. And under stress, decisions become unreliable. Piloting becomes much easer, and thus safer, when you can convert as much behavior as possible to the unconscious level. This is most desirable when there is a response which is always optimal, such as assuming best glide after an engine failure, or feathering an engine when it fails, or flying blue-line, or recovering from a stall. There is no downside to doing these things, even when not absolutely necessary, yet there is a downside to not doing them when needed or doing them too slowly.

If you have students drifting left during go-arounds, having them apply less power is merely a substitute developing the needed rudder and aileron skills. I’ve never noticed this issue, by the way.

Deakin is offering a solution to a problem that only exists in warbirds. I’m skeptical that any airplane is certifiable these days whereby the pilot lacks enough rudder and aileron authority to control the airplane in a go-around. Possibly some experimentals.

I don’t have a problem if a pilot chooses to only push the prop forward doing a go-around, as long as he does it. But to decide as a matter of policy to accept less than maximum performance during this maneuver decreases pilot safety, in my view, and is contrary to FAA recommendations and probably most POH's.
 
Students who show up with $1000 worth of gear in their flight bag who end up not being able to fly the airplane if their life depended on it.
 
How about some of the better quotes you get from them....

Some of my recent favorites:

1. "Chreeeeees, we don't need to do steep turns for Part 61 checkride"... Apparently, the same student believed that you didn't have to know as much(read: anything) for Part 61 checkrides as well.

2. " I can do all the studying for my checkride tonight" ... From a student who completely tanked his pre-checkride oral after refusing pre-checkride ground school because he wanted to do 'self study.' This one happened today.

3. "When is my checkride <Repeat 20 times per day from pre-solo students>?"
 
Just remembered one....

Primary students refusing to buy a kneeboard, so they fumble around with the checklist, sectionals, etc.
 
My favorite is the presolo student with 35 hours thinking he will be handed his license at 40 hours and saying that he is nearly finished. Keep needing to be reminded that they won't make much progress if they show up unprepared each lesson.

Gotta love the 7 or 8 am no shows as well.
 
uofmcp1201 said:
" I can do all the studying for my checkride tonight" ... From a student who completely tanked his pre-checkride oral after refusing pre-checkride ground school because he wanted to do 'self study.' This one happened today.
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Instructors who sign off students for checkrides when they are not ready.
 
uofmcp1201 said:
Just remembered one....

Primary students refusing to buy a kneeboard, so they fumble around with the checklist, sectionals, etc.
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I was reading the Machado book, and he showed a pretty ingenious method of using a clipboard and three large paper clips (the clamping kind) to make a lap/kneeboard. Thought that was pretty cool. And cheaper than buying one. :D
 
The prop forward on downwind I think is for students. I always teach to do this on the Geard down b4 landing check because I like them to get set up as far in advance as possible and just worry about blue line and landing the plane once they are on final. Now when I go fly by myself I push my props foward on real short final, the Mani Press is low and the engines don't surge if you are gentle with them. I think it may have something to do with drag as well. It won't let you get to fast one final if your student comes steep. For a begining student I try not to make it anymore complicated than it needs to be. Yelling at them to put props forward on short final if they are fast and then not saying anything if they are good is the last thing I want to do especially with my fav. Indians out there. Set up a foundation that they can use everytime.

As for pet peeves...

1. Yelling Clear prop and not even looking out the window to make sure the area is clear.

2. Telling an examiner "He never went over (insert any maneuver here) with me before" after he fails his checkride.

3. Saying N12345 turning finals (what the #### is finals its final not plural).

4. Any stage check i have to do.

5. Student pilots making position reports on the practice area freq. every 30 f'ing seconds when they are in the same location everytime.

6. And by far my favorite:
Saying Roger when an Affirmative is appropriate.
ex. Tower: Cessna 12345 are you on 3 mile final for 27? Student: Roger! :banghead: What does it even mean?

But hey we are flying so its all worth it!:panic:
 
Not an instructor,"yet" but i have heard a lot of the new students say they are working on their "privates":)FLY SAFE T.C.
 
flyboy6585 said:
You have never had a deer run right in front of you at about 2 inches off the ground. I think that your arguement that it is just as easy to grab the whole quadrent and shove everything forward is lame, no offense.

First at higher altitude airport you might need the mixture leaned to get the necessary performance and if you are going to grab two knobs then what is going to stop you in a hurry from grabbing three. And if you forget to push the prop forward at high density altitude airports you might not clear possible obstacles

Second, every POH that I have ever seen has as one of its landing items, "props full forward." I know that everything that a POH isn't absolutely correct and has the tendency to change over time, but it is in "every POH" and they can't all be wrong.

Third, you are teaching bad cockpit management skills to your students. Why not just move the darn knob forward on final when you have a free second rather than creating the need for extra extra steps and thoughts in the first few critical seconds of a late go-around.

Bottom line, most of the time your method works perfectly well, but the one time that one of your students uses this method and the outcome involves bent metal or possible injuries, it is going to come back and haunt you. I don't care how you do it yourself, but when you are teaching students you have the responsibility to make sure that they are able to fly the aircraft in a safe manner at all times.

I hope that this doesn't sound like I am harping too much but this is my honest opinion.
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Call the AFW FSDO and tell them its lame, or any DPE and tell them its lame, or Simcom in Scottsdale. They all told me that advancing the prop to full on downwind is sloppy flying. If you want to gently advance them on final I personaly wouldnt have a problem with it. I would think most Part 135 operators SOP's would disagree with you.

I was more directing my post to the "Downwind..PROPS FULL!!"....SURGE!! Its effin sloppy as hell.

Why not just hold your hand on the quadrant and advance it at once? People keep coming up with all these scenerios. I could think of a million things that COULD go wrong.

How am I teaching bad CRM? Should I teach them all these neat "flying for dummies" ways?

"OK kiddies you should hold your hands on the throttle during takeoff and landings, so we are just gonna hold it on there the ENTIRE flight so you dont forget".

Or, "You might hit a deer one day in Texas on a high density day, and your hand might slip when you try to advance the props to full. If that happens the aircraft is gonna explode. We should just advance the props to full on every single landing."

No thanks, I'll stick to what I've been doing.
 
How about teaching guys to fly a jet that have been in a King air....
After landing, they lift the power levers and try to put the "props" in reverse. :eek::eek: A hint for the uninitiated......Doing that in a jet cuts the engines OFF.

Later when they find the TRs... they use 100% every time and no brakes. Funny, but painful.
 
ryanmickG said:
Call the AFW FSDO and tell them its lame, or any DPE and tell them its lame, or Simcom in Scottsdale. They all told me that advancing the prop to full on downwind is sloppy flying. If you want to gently advance them on final I personaly wouldnt have a problem with it. I would think most Part 135 operators SOP's would disagree with you.

I was more directing my post to the "Downwind..PROPS FULL!!"....SURGE!! Its effin sloppy as hell.

Why not just hold your hand on the quadrant and advance it at once? People keep coming up with all these scenerios. I could think of a million things that COULD go wrong.

How am I teaching bad CRM? Should I teach them all these neat "flying for dummies" ways?

"OK kiddies you should hold your hands on the throttle during takeoff and landings, so we are just gonna hold it on there the ENTIRE flight so you dont forget".

Or, "You might hit a deer one day in Texas on a high density day, and your hand might slip when you try to advance the props to full. If that happens the aircraft is gonna explode. We should just advance the props to full on every single landing."

No thanks, I'll stick to what I've been doing.
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I am not going to argue with you anymore. It is obvious that I can't say anything to convince you otherwise, regardless of POH's or SOP's. We should teach students the safest methods possible, and the reasoning behind those methods. If you feel that your way is the safest possible, it is your perrogative, as a certificated instructor, to teach that method. I disagree, but that is my perrogative.
 
flyboy6585 said:
I am not going to argue with you anymore. It is obvious that I can't say anything to convince you otherwise, regardless of POH's or SOP's. We should teach students the safest methods possible, and the reasoning behind those methods. If you feel that your way is the safest possible, it is your perrogative, as a certificated instructor, to teach that method. I disagree, but that is my perrogative.
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No arguing here! Just different opinions. You have to really under my skin for my blood pressure to jump from JC.

I agree with you that if you can make a smooth advance with the props on final the knock yourself out.

I've seen too many people taught the wrong way to do it(including myself). I remember doing my multi training and my instructor would tell me "GUMPS...prop forward midfield downwind". It took me a while to get out of that bad habit. Commercial training should be taught as if you have pax in the back seat. Pax dont like sudden noises coming from engines:)

You can develop good habits with students and bad habits too. Checklist and proper preflight would be a good habit(obviously).

Keeping your hand on the throttle during cruise flight would be an example of a horrible habit for students. How many airline pilots do that?

I think there is too much rote learning for students these days. We use way too many acronyms. When I ask a student what our day VFR equipment requirments are they can recite "Tomato flames" verbatim, but if I ask them where to find it in the FAR..."Is that that book I bought when I started?" yea dude. I am as guilty as the next guy when it comes to making it as easy as possible for students but I'm trying to get away from that style.

Nowadays I make my private students study the FAR/AIM much more.
 
ryanmickG said:
I remember doing my multi training and my instructor would tell me "GUMPS...prop forward midfield downwind". It took me a while to get out of that bad habit. Commercial training should be taught as if you have pax in the back seat.
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Procedure vs. technique
Procedure: Props forward before landing vs. props forward after landing
Technique: Props forward on downwind vs. props forward on short final

GUMPS is procedure. Midfield downwind is technique.

Procedure is generally critiqued by check airmen, technique is usually not. Technique is what passengers critique.
 
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