meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the world of M&A!
SKYW Opening CRJ ATL (Lineholder)Base
- Thread starter mrivc211
- Start date
Welcome to the world of M&A!
Folks, pilots don't truly control where the flying goes.
If you're looking for career stability at a company who flies outsourced flying, you seriously need to re-evaluate your situation because "your" flying (which is really someone else's) can be awarded to someone else at the drop of a hat.
It's political, oft done to make an example for the other pilot groups and it's very high school, but the companies know exactly what the pilot "mentality" is and they use it against us.
If you scratch the surface, you'll see that it has more to do with stalled negotiations at ASA and trying to "keep the good times rolling"/fight off the organization drive at Skywest.
It's not about quality (Freedom Air's getting a BOATLOAD of flying and no one seems to like their product).
It's not about who has a bigger donger than the other.
It's got nothing to do but serve as another hunk of raw meat in the lion's den to keep regional guys at one another's necks and drive costs lower.
It's up to us to put a stop to it.
Get on the bus or STFU in my personal opinion.
If you're looking for career stability at a company who flies outsourced flying, you seriously need to re-evaluate your situation because "your" flying (which is really someone else's) can be awarded to someone else at the drop of a hat.
It's political, oft done to make an example for the other pilot groups and it's very high school, but the companies know exactly what the pilot "mentality" is and they use it against us.
If you scratch the surface, you'll see that it has more to do with stalled negotiations at ASA and trying to "keep the good times rolling"/fight off the organization drive at Skywest.
It's not about quality (Freedom Air's getting a BOATLOAD of flying and no one seems to like their product).
It's not about who has a bigger donger than the other.
It's got nothing to do but serve as another hunk of raw meat in the lion's den to keep regional guys at one another's necks and drive costs lower.
It's up to us to put a stop to it.
Get on the bus or STFU in my personal opinion.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
It's actually pretty simple.
- The pilots of Skywest didn't invade Atlanta with panzerfausts and MG-42's and snatch flying from the pilots ASA.
- Stop providing financial incentive to companies via mega low payrates for DC-9 sized aircraft or substandard work rules to shift flying around.
I guess I should have said "directly" but I'm sure you get the point.
- The pilots of Skywest didn't invade Atlanta with panzerfausts and MG-42's and snatch flying from the pilots ASA.
- Stop providing financial incentive to companies via mega low payrates for DC-9 sized aircraft or substandard work rules to shift flying around.
I guess I should have said "directly" but I'm sure you get the point.
Sorry for the drift, but where is the damn chick-fil-a at ATL???? Last time I was there, I visited every friggen concourse lookin' for it and never found it....
sorry..back to the subject at hand.....
Skywest needed to open ATL because they were using SLC crews very inefficiently......who knows what the future will bring, but I'm sure after everything is said and done, ASA is going to be smaller than it is now. The pilot groups will soon have a little more leverage as things pick up and profits go up. The problem from the last few years was everyone taking concessions.....there was absolutely no motivation or example for management to increase pay at any level..hopefully that'll change now that airlines are starting to make money...
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Merit, love ya man but you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You take the airline management perspective speaking about it as market value & business 101. But you seem to forget that just awhile back you were going to work at Mesa and you were worried about feeding your family, and screaming about how pilots deserve more pay and respect for the job they do.
So which is it, ya can't have both!
Corporations also have a duty to pay fair and livable wages to their employees. So are you advocating that the employees don't deserve an honest contract with a decent livable wage?
But shareholders deserve six figure checks and million dollar bonuses? Honest question my friend.
My cousin got her MBA last year from University of Texas: Austin. She said that she had to take a class call business ethics. I close simply saying that.
So which is it, ya can't have both!
Meritflyer said:
Corporations also have a duty to pay fair and livable wages to their employees. So are you advocating that the employees don't deserve an honest contract with a decent livable wage?
But shareholders deserve six figure checks and million dollar bonuses? Honest question my friend.
My cousin got her MBA last year from University of Texas: Austin. She said that she had to take a class call business ethics. I close simply saying that.
aloft
New Member
Yeah well..."business ethics" simply means giving your employees a reach-around while you #### them in the ###.
That said, other than the obvious whipsaw implication, can somebody shed some light on what SkyWest management could possibly stand to gain by driving ASA into the ground? Seems counterintuitive--but then I'm not an MBA, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
That said, other than the obvious whipsaw implication, can somebody shed some light on what SkyWest management could possibly stand to gain by driving ASA into the ground? Seems counterintuitive--but then I'm not an MBA, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
MDPilot
Well-Known Member
Bzzzzzt!! Sorry Doug, Chick-fil-A is at A-11
And back on topic...
Sorry ASA, it's really Delta's flying. They have been given permission from DALPA to outsource a portion of flying (whether that is a good idea or not is another story), and it is up to Delta to subcontract to whomever they please, and change those contracts as they please. When ASA (pick your regional) starts marketing and selling tickets themselves as ASA, on ASA branded planes on ASA chosen routes, then they can start claiming "their" flying.
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
He speaketh the truth...
Atlanta Hartsfield Airport
Concourse A - Unit #80143
Call for directions, menu and hours of operation
Atlanta, GA 30320
404/433-7711
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Max, there is no question that corporations should pay a fair and livable wage. I am a huge advocate of that. What I am not an advocate of is when people complain that company A lost "their" flying to company B. My whole point is, that is business.
Do shareholders deserve a six figure check? Well, let me ask you this. If I started a company and came to you when your're a millionaire and asked you for $2M to start my company. Would you expect me to pay you back and some?
My comments in this thread are about competition. That is business my friend. Business ethics is another thread.
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
But here's the thing that no one wants to admit. The product that airlines sell is the skill set of the pilots. We are the airline. Every other job (from bag throwing to management) is there to facilitate the pilot group moving an airplane from point A to point B. It might sound snooty (and I'm not trying to put down other job groups here, I'm really not) but it's the cold hard truth.
So if this expansion doesn't get extended to the people whose skills are being exploited what f'ing good is picking up new bases, new routes, etc?
And, in this case a base in ATL is one more giant step closer to that very gray line between scab and non-scab.
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
$30 mil per quarter isn't "making money?" It's more than SW pulls in. And our last "pay vote" (which is a joke because it's not binding in anyway shape or form) netted 65% of the company tangible 1% raise!
Yeah, I see the goodness of their hearts just oozing all over us.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Because with Skywest and ASA it's NOT from one company to another, it's the same company.
Remember that Skywest owns ASA.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Like MDPilot said it is not Colgan flying, or XJET flying it is Continental flying. Your company is bleeding dry another company of fellow pilots. Today it is ASA, but what can tomorrow bring? Could Skywest be bleed dry if they are bought out?
Pinnacle bought Colgan to expand. That is awesome. However, we as pilots need to raise the bar. No freaking way will I want to be used as a pawn in the whipsaw game. That is why I am trying to organize Colgan. You have a choice, either accept what is given or change things Kyle.
Pilots are pawns to management. WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT. A unified pilot group will prevent this and raise the bar.
IMO, ASA management does what Skywest management wants. They are a skeleton.
That my friends is the bottom line. A regional pilot basically is an operator in an Indian call center. We are at the whim of outsourcing, it can change overnight.
We need to advocate more of these 'outsourced' jets and props even (CRJs, ERJS, Q400s) brought back to the mainline carriers.
Pilots are our own worse enemy.
IT IS TIME TO CHANGE THAT
Hootie
Old Skool
What blows my mind, is the the thickness of the Kool-Aid at Skywest. We have no work rules. I've never been this badly raped at any job in my life. And some of my buddies here keep telling me how great Skywest is. I still am amazed sometimes at how excited FO's are to be flying the riddle jet 99.9 hours a month and to live out of a crashpad with 8 other doods eating ramen.