KIWA Approach Plate Question

meritflyer said:
Okay so -

We'd maintain 5000 until 4.9 DME off IWA (SNOWL) then descend down to 4600 and fly outbound on the LOC front course. Then a PT while still at 4600. Once we rec'd course guidance inbound, down to our GS intercept of 3000.

Do I have that right?
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Looking good . . .
 
Alright.. Now, do you guys normally teach to make the PT at X amount before the 10 mi limitation? For example, lead the PT off by 2 miles or something?
 
That's a realm of mystery right there. I always told my students to track outbound for a minute to a minute and a half, then do the procedure turn. Obviously, the faster the a/xc, the sooner you have to make the PT to stay within the 10 mile ring.
 
Anyone know where it is published that the 10nm ring is a limitation? I am pretty sure that it only means that anything inside it is "to scale" and anything outside is not. It is not a hard distance to remain within.

Also, how would you identify being outside of 10NM from SNOWL with only the minimum navs required for this approach?
 
Yes there are approaches that state to remain within 10nm, but not all. Take for instance the approach in question.

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/00074I30C.PDF

I have never read in the AIM that this is a hard limitation, nor that obstacle clearance is guaranteed inside of 10nm. It makes perfect sense, yet I've never come across it. Anyone got a ref?


Edit: Disregard. It is late and obviously I can't read worth a crap tonight.
 
FLpilot said:
Anyone know where it is published that the 10nm ring is a limitation? I am pretty sure that it only means that anything inside it is "to scale" and anything outside is not. It is not a hard distance to remain within.

Also, how would you identify being outside of 10NM from SNOWL with only the minimum navs required for this approach?
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yes you are correct. the 10 mile ring on the plan view is for scale purposes.

It also happens that most of the time the profile also says to stay within 10 miles for protection.
 
AIM 5-4-9

"Pilots should begin the procedure turn immediately after passing the procedure turn fix (SNOWL in this case). The PT must be executed within the distance specified in the profile view. The normal PT distance is 10 miles."
 
SNOWL would be the PT fix correct? This may be a really stupid thought but I've never thought an intersection as a fix.

Ouch!
 
meritflyer said:
Uhh.. you sure? Why would we care what the DME was outbound on the backcourse?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying you' fly outbound on the LOC (as course guidance) for the 45/180 course reversal back inbound? Then intercept the "front course" inbound?

Rest was covered regards the VOR course for the reversal and the actual LOC course being non-coincident.

Here's a quiz question for anyone. Anyone know the reason for the different missed approach instructions noted on the VOR/TAC approach plate here?


http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0609/00074VT30C.PDF
 
meritflyer said:
I have a question for y'all about the ILS 30C into KIWA -

On the Jepp plate, I notice that the 122 radial off IWA is shown as if it points to the back course and says 122* 4.9 5000.

Why does it show a VOR radial if you are to fly the LOC backcourse?

Correct me if I am wrong - You'd fly the backcourse at 4600' then once you have course guidance inbound after your PT you'd descend to 3000' for GS intercept.

Anyone know why that is? Why would we care how far SNOWL is from the VOR on the plan view? Why is that arrow (feeder route) there and what the heck does it mean?

AHHH!

I am confused :insane:
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Look at the approach again, and ask yourself this question:

If the ILS Glideslope is NOTAMed out of sevice (OTS), how will I fly this approach? How will I define the Final Approach Fix (FAF)?



I believe the answer to your question will be found in that analysis.






.
 
MikeD said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying you' fly outbound on the LOC (as course guidance) for the 45/180 course reversal back inbound? Then intercept the "front course" inbound?
Click to expand...

Thats what I am saying. Track the LOC outbound for course guidance then execute your PT.

????
 
TonyC said:
Look at the approach again, and ask yourself this question:

If the ILS Glideslope is NOTAMed out of sevice (OTS), how will I fly this approach? How will I define the Final Approach Fix (FAF)?
Click to expand...

2 ways of defining SNOWL. 1- DME off IWA and 2- using the 025 radial off TFD.
 
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