Learjet 60 crash in West Palm Beach

Maximilian_Jenius said:
So, they identified the two people up front, but I haven't heard anything about the seven other people in the back. Or did I miss that announcement?
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It was an Austin software guy, his family and their nanny. He made software that de-anonymized visitors to websites and connected them to their LinkedIn profile for advertisers.

Unless you meant to callout a specific "they."
 
Wardogg said:
Rushed isn’t the word I use. Scripted, to a fault, is. There is no room for “things you want to see or do”. Even though they like to pretend the training is there for you. It’s not. It’s there to check the FAA boxes and get you to pass in the allotted time you(or your company) paid for.

I’m flying three types right now. Thankfully my company sends us to recurrent every 12 months. Which puts me in an FSI building very regularly. I’m telling you I could fly the MEM RNAV 27 circle to Rwy 18R blindfolded with a broken arm and my sisters kids climbing all over the cockpit and still nail it within standards.

But that’s not training. That’s not making me a better, safer, more knowledgeable pilot.

Let’s have an engine failure on a warm day out of Aspen and the gear won’t come up.

Let’s fly over a convective area at altitude and have an engine failure and see just how far down single engine drift down is going to be. Sure you’re clearing the tops now but what if we lost one?

Let’s do 35kt crosswind landings in COS.

Or landing in Florida in moderate rain.
Or contaminated runway simulations
Or a myriad of other scenarios that they don’t cover at all that need to be seen in a simulator before you have to go do it for real.

I feel his sentiment though. I haven’t heard yet how much time he had in type. Hopefully if this statement of his is true he wasn’t speaking about his initial type training.

Edit to add show me any 1300 pilot in their first jet that isn’t a little too reliant on the autopilot. And even if true her lack of basic flying skills don’t mean • when you don’t have a tail. Given the scenario im pretty sure Bob Hoover wasn’t getting them out of it once it turned south.
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As I said previous a few pages back. Millions of dollars spent for level D/Cs to just check boxes and customers spend thousands in “training” to sit in a 16hr class and listen to a seated instructor half falling asleep read bullet points on a slide. Pair that with the same old flight profiles you could fly in your sleep. Great value, way to keep them prepared! 👍 There’s a lot of brokenness in the industry regarding training standards. It’s too archaic and robotic. Santa Clause is not welcome here. And seriously, not every one is cut out to do this job. And not everyone is cut out to do it at a certain timeline. Shouldn’t that be ok? The same standards that apply at the airline level should apply to commercial aviation. If you can’t hack it at a 121, you shouldn’t be in 135 either. It shouldn’t be regarded as a “fall back” The standards and expectations should be the same. And if you show up to training wearing shorts and flip flops, you should be told to leave. Full stop. There’s a level of professionalism that needs to come back to the industry. Country clubs have higher expectations, my goodness. My observed 0.02
 
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The only two things that don't quite add up to me is that the girl on the radio is clearly saying "jack" instead of "Jeff" which is what's on the reporting. Also, the tail wreckage photos look suspicious. Why are the two pieces so close to each other? When I first saw that pic, I first thought "staged". Is it common for icing to directly cause the tail to come clean off within minutes?
 
nbv4 said:
The only two things that don't quite add up to me is that the girl on the radio is clearly saying "jack" instead of "Jeff" which is what's on the reporting. Also, the tail wreckage photos look suspicious. Why are the two pieces so close to each other? When I first saw that pic, I first thought "staged". Is it common for icing to directly cause the tail to come clean off within minutes?
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I heard it as "Jeff" and that was before I had seen names or that some people heard "Jack"
 
nbv4 said:
Is it common for icing to directly cause the tail to come clean off within minutes?
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Not directly. Icing would cause the tailplane stall, which would result in loss of pitch control, which would lead to a departure from controlled flight and an uncontrolled dive. In that dive, any exceedance of structural limit speeds, potentially exacerbated by rapid or abrupt flight control inputs for recovery and resultant G loading, is what would lead ultimately to the structural failure of the tail components at their weakest points.
 
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nbv4 said:
Is it common for icing to directly cause the tail to come clean off within minutes?
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It isn’t usually just one event (icing) that causes the accident. As Mike explained, an avalanche of smaller issues can compound and result in the worst case outcome.

www.aopa.org

Swiss cheese

When we climb into the cockpit for the first time with pilot certificate on board, a profound sense of exhilaration and freedom fills us. It’s a moment where we realize our student days are over, and we’re embarking on a journey as full-fledged aviators.
www.aopa.org
 
nbv4 said:
The only two things that don't quite add up to me is that the girl on the radio is clearly saying "jack" instead of "Jeff" which is what's on the reporting. Also, the tail wreckage photos look suspicious. Why are the two pieces so close to each other? When I first saw that pic, I first thought "staged". Is it common for icing to directly cause the tail to come clean off within minutes?
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So, she didn’t recall the name of the captain? What’s your point?

Nobody thinks icing caused the separation of the horizontal stabilizer.
 
nbv4 said:
The only two things that don't quite add up to me is that the girl on the radio is clearly saying "jack" instead of "Jeff" which is what's on the reporting. Also, the tail wreckage photos look suspicious. Why are the two pieces so close to each other? When I first saw that pic, I first thought "staged". Is it common for icing to directly cause the tail to come clean off within minutes?
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She’s saying Jeff. The online idiot crowd took off with the idea (initially) she was flying with a supposed boyfriend named Jack.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
So, she didn’t recall the name of the captain? What’s your point?

Nobody thinks icing caused the separation of the horizontal stabilizer.
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She got her callsign 100% correct in all that mess. Even Sully and ATC messed up the Cactus # callsign. When things get tense, that’s probably the first thing to go. She nailed 7 2 2 Bravo Delta.
 
Roger Roger said:
Shi man, half the time I half to look at the pairing to remember the guys name sitting next to me
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TRUTH



I can’t count the number of times we do a bathroom break, then I pick up the handset and think, oh crap, what’s the FOs name again?! Then do the awkwardly “hey, it’s me, I’m ready…”
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
TRUTH



I can’t count the number of times we do a bathroom break, then I pick up the handset and think, oh crap, what’s the FOs name again?! Then do the awkwardly “hey, it’s me, I’m ready…”
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I will say the times when a CA really makes an effort to call me by my name, I tend to pay more attention to theirs. But also, 99.9% of the time, I have no idea what our A FA's name is. Though lately, really since summer, I've had a string of trips where we keep our crew for 2 consecutive days, so it's a bit easier then.
 
///AMG said:
I will say the times when a CA really makes an effort to call me by my name, I tend to pay more attention to theirs. But also, 99.9% of the time, I have no idea what our A FA's name is. Though lately, really since summer, I've had a string of trips where we keep our crew for 2 consecutive days, so it's a bit easier then.
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I write down the entire crew and place it on the center pedestal. Helps eliminate some awkwardness, helps me remember them, and also works for jumpseaters.
 
Kingairer said:
I write down the entire crew and place it on the center pedestal. Helps eliminate some awkwardness, helps me remember them, and also works for jumpseaters.
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I’ve flown with guys that do this, it always seems a little dorky to me but then I remember in the captain role being able to address people by name is probably one of those little things that goes a long way in being a good leader/team builder
 
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