Icon Aircraft co-founder dies in wing suit accident.

killbilly said:
That’s an odd take. What specifically made you think that?

I fly with a guy who instructs in Icons as a side gig and he speaks very highly of the aircraft. He’s a very accomplished and knowledgeable pilot.
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This was back in 2014 or 2015 so it's a bit hazy. Having flown several amphibs and knowing how risky that type of flying is, all the hazards of the maritime environment and aviation, combined. I asked a lot of safety questions. I was told several times that the aircraft could not be stalled. I didn't say it at the time but kind of wished I had "I'll stall the F out of that thing, it has a wing." What I think they really meant was since it had an AOA gauge it couldn't be stalled. The guy in the above article pulls up on a liter superbike and starts telling me how easy this airplane is to fly. I'm thinking dude I'd kill myself in about 30 seconds on that bike, you have no idea what is easy to the average person. He seemed to be a very skilled guy but he probably hadn't had to deal with the average Joe and all the stupid stuff they do during flight training.

On the limo ride back to the airport just north of OSH to grab our charter back to CVX boss asked me what I thought and I told him straight up. He looked like I kicked his dog. A few years later there were a lot of high profile accidents in ICONs including the ball player and the head engineer with some passenger that flew into a box canyon near the ICON facility.

It just seemed like they were so caviler about safety even though they were selling something relatively dangerous, compared to a C-152. A jetski with wings indeed... So that's my take. I'd be happy to fly one, myself and go fishing. However, I did not want to give my then billionaire boss flying lessons in it considering he already showed what he was like to instruct when I took him sailing, on his sailboat.
 
Thanks for the clarification. Your issue seems to be with the people operating it and not the airplane itself.

It does stall, it just doesn’t break. When you exceed AOA it just sinks, similar to a falling leaf but without the pitching moment. I asked the instructor guy about this very behavior not a week ago when we were flying together.

He has offered to get me current on sea planes again and I’m pretty tempted to take him up on the offer. If I get to fly an icon, I’ll let you know.
 
killbilly said:
It does stall, it just doesn’t break. When you exceed AOA it just sinks, similar to a falling leaf but without the pitching moment. I asked the instructor guy about this very behavior not a week ago when we were flying together.
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They apparently achieved this by limiting elevator deflection. The airplane supposedly sort of mushes and sinks below Vs and you don’t have sufficient elevator authority to force the nose up to cause an aggressive break.

The Rutan LongEZ addressed this problem in a tangentially similar way by giving the canard a different angle of incidence than the main wing so the canard stalls first - which causes the airplane to porpoise in pitch as the canard stalls and the nose drops while the main wing keeps flying - poor man’s stick pusher. Slowing below Vs results in a similar mushing/sinking as the nose porpoises but the main wing stays below the critical angle of attack.

I always thought it would be fun to accept their un-stallable challenge, and put the airplane into some crazy unusual attitude like a tail-slide and force it to. However that same limited control authority that’s a safety feature during normal flight now becomes a hindrance to recovering from the unusual attitude, so my sense of self preservation wins. :) I heard an anecdote once from a pretty famous civilian astronaut/test pilot about a botched loop turned inverted spin in a LongEZ that he barely survived, where he had to try every trick in the book and use elevator and aileron inputs to roll the airplane over since the drag rudders were inadequate to stop the rotation. I would definitely need a new seat after that one.
 
ahw01 said:
Funny how national healthcare just works isnt it
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Murdoughnut said:
If the option is painting a rock at 50 or dying of butt cancer at 80, I'll take the latter. Preferably if I'm in Canada or a state where I can be put down like the family pet before I become a burden.
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Death panels in America? Good luck. All it takes hr two physicians to sign you off to die.



Besides you can still do that in America, the American way. Using your gun in the #1 way it’s used in this country (suicide). ‘Murica
 
Roger Roger said:
I remember hanging out at the airport fire station with the medevac crew (IMS we had participated in some sort of youth career day with the firefighters) and we ended up on a similar YouTube rabbit hole. Those dudes are certifiably insane
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I did see a video from S. America where one jumps off a cliff, appears to dive to pick up speed then *THOMP* into the face of the cliff.
 
inigo88 said:
The Rutan LongEZ addressed this problem in a tangentially similar way by giving the canard a different angle of incidence than the main wing so the canard stalls first - which causes the airplane to porpoise in pitch as the canard stalls and the nose drops while the main wing keeps flying - poor man’s stick pusher. Slowing below Vs results in a similar mushing/sinking as the nose porpoises but the main wing stays below the critical angle of attack.
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Strangely enough this popped up in reels today


View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNY2WeASjYD/?igsh=MXh3dHRzN3F6anV2bg==
 
inigo88 said:
The Rutan LongEZ addressed this problem in a tangentially similar way by giving the canard a different angle of incidence than the main wing so the canard stalls first - which causes the airplane to porpoise in pitch as the canard stalls and the nose drops while the main wing keeps flying …
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I thought it was primarily a different airfoil vs AOI that resulted in the canard stalling first. It could be both.

I remember when there were so many canard E-AB under construction. EZ, Velocity, Veri-eze, Quickie 2, Dragonfly …. I wonder what the completion rate is.
 
pretty sure a friend of mine in the reserves just did some wing suit flying down under. After watching some of her GoPro footage of backcountry skiing in Utah, I'm thinking that was the lesser of two dangers. Female Ricky Bobby
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I wouldn't call it bad luck. I met this guy at OSH when the F900 owner wanted to look at an ICON. He had an order postion.

After talking to this gentleman and a few other employees I decided to do whatever it would take to never give instruction in one.
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I had a similar experience.

Through my military connections I had several acquaintances who were involved with Icon. Many years back before I was at my current career job I was being recruited to be a demo/sales pilot for them.

I took a flight with one of their demo guys and, while the A5 was certainly an interesting airplane, I didn't at all like the vibe of the company pilots I ended up talking to about the job and socializing with. A little bit too much of guys getting high on their own stash and being show-offish with the airplanes.

I didn't meet the owner whose death was being reported in the OP, but I had to chuckle a little at the quote at the bottom of the article: “Kirk devoured life experiences most of us would never touch. He was damn good at assessing risks, probably because he took so many."

So, was he really "damn good" at that? How'd that work out for him?
 
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