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I use auto brakes 3 for darned near every landing. Leave them on until 60 knots, kick them off and roll smoothly to the turnoff. To me it’s the smoothest braking scenario you can use on the 737. I did the same thing on the 300/400 back in the 90s at US.

“It’s how I was trained, it’s how my trainer was trained. It’s a dynasty of bad training that will not end with me.”
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Dry runway. 12,000 length.


Cowl latches not secured.


You land, STOP using TR on the affected engine!

You are damn guaranteeing ripping that thing to shreds and sending it places you don’t want (eg, fuselage).
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They were performing a no flap landing at what I assume would be a fairly heavy weight at a high altitude airport with a lot of things going on in a relatively short amount of time. I don’t think it’s fair to be nitpicking their use of full reverse given the situation.
 
CFIscare said:
They were performing a no flap landing at what I assume would be a fairly heavy weight at a high altitude airport with a lot of things going on in a relatively short amount of time. I don’t think it’s fair to be nitpicking their use of full reverse given the situation.
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Their groundspeed had to be approaching ludicrous speed.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Their groundspeed had to be approaching ludicrous speed.
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ZapBrannigan said:
I use auto brakes 3 for darned near every landing. Leave them on until 60 knots, kick them off and roll smoothly to the turnoff. To me it’s the smoothest braking scenario you can use on the 737. I did the same thing on the 300/400 back in the 90s at US.

“It’s how I was trained, it’s how my trainer was trained. It’s a dynasty of bad training that will not end with me.”
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I don’t see the point to be honest. Too much braking pressure. On a hot day, not good. How much of that shuddering do you get in your pedals as you park at the gate?

TRs initially will give a fairly high decel rate. I think the last time I used AB 3 was SNA.

If the runway is long and dry, what’s wrong with 0 AB and let the TRs run until 80 kts? It does surprisingly well. I have yet to miss the standard turnoffs everyone else is using.
 
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@ZapBrannigan

Obviously our shops are different, just thought I’d share anyway:

Braking

Our last topic is a concern about braking efforts/habits. The autobrakes command a deceleration rate. Thrust reverser usage with autobrakes does not increase the braking effort, but does reduce demand on the brakes. This is important for hot/high locations. Using a low autobrake setting with minimum reverse thrust followed by a heavy brake application can cause some of the highest brake temperatures. Whereas consistent, higher autobrake selections with greater reverse thrust results in much lower brake temperatures. No autobrake usage (NG) with maximum thrust reverser usage and consistent, smooth brake application at lower speeds results in the best brake temperatures. (On the MAX, the autobrake system’s consistent application is always recommended due to the characteristics of carbon brakes). In every circumstance, performance shall dictate the braking application required for landing; however, being cognizant of QTAWs and how we’re using the brakes can reduce brake temperatures and maintenance on the brake system.
 
I’ve adopted that bolded portion. Unless contaminated, crosswind, or short runway, I do AB 0 and full reverse until below 100 knots. Then between 80-100 knots, come up on the brakes with one light smooth pressure.


Works well, lasts long time :)
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I don’t see the point to be honest. Too much braking pressure. On a hot day, not good. How much of that shuddering do you get in your pedals as you park at the gate?

TRs initially will give a fairly high decel rate. I think the last time I used AB 3 was SNA.

If the runway is long and dry, what’s wrong with 0 AB and let the TRs run until 80 kts? It does surprisingly well. I have yet to miss the standard turnoffs everyone else is using.
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With a long runway and no urgency to exit, such as DMA or RIV, I don’t even use the TRs besides just fanning them out/idle. A little bit of aerobrake while lowering the nose. Don’t even have to start with brakes, aside from the quick initial check of them, until well slow. The airplane would probably roll to a complete stop on its own still with a lot of runway to spare. Especially if using landing speeds with a weight around 67k-68k

But seriously, Many techniques to accomplish the same thing. Some more effective than others. Do what’s required, do what’s safe. Mileage varies.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
@ZapBrannigan

Obviously our shops are different, just thought I’d share anyway:

Braking

Our last topic is a concern about braking efforts/habits. The autobrakes command a deceleration rate. Thrust reverser usage with autobrakes does not increase the braking effort, but does reduce demand on the brakes. This is important for hot/high locations. Using a low autobrake setting with minimum reverse thrust followed by a heavy brake application can cause some of the highest brake temperatures. Whereas consistent, higher autobrake selections with greater reverse thrust results in much lower brake temperatures. No autobrake usage (NG) with maximum thrust reverser usage and consistent, smooth brake application at lower speeds results in the best brake temperatures. (On the MAX, the autobrake system’s consistent application is always recommended due to the characteristics of carbon brakes). In every circumstance, performance shall dictate the braking application required for landing; however, being cognizant of QTAWs and how we’re using the brakes can reduce brake temperatures and maintenance on the brake system. I’m on the 75/76 and haven’t flown the 73, but for what it’s worth, my airline’s made it pretty clear they’d rather us wear down brake pads than use full reverse.
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I’m on the 75/76 and haven’t flown the 737, but brakes 3 is pretty standard, brakes 2 on a long runway.

When it comes to autobrakes vs max reverse, my airline has made it pretty clear they don’t mind buying more brakes. They’d rather us wear down the brakes before using max reverse, old engines and all. Except maybe on a hot day or high elevation.
 
We had this discussion today in recurrent. The new philosophy is idle reverse. It saves fuel, wear and tear on the engine, but it allows the carbon brakes to get warm and are more effective on the taxi in.
 
podrick said:
I’m on the 75/76 and haven’t flown the 737, but brakes 3 is pretty standard, brakes 2 on a long runway.

When it comes to autobrakes vs max reverse, my airline has made it pretty clear they don’t mind buying more brakes. They’d rather us wear down the brakes before using max reverse, old engines and all. Except maybe on a hot day or high elevation.
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Virtual airline had several brake seizures. One was in DEN. Hot day, windy, one TR deferred. Used flaps 15 for winds and used AB 3. Reverse on only one engine. Landed, cleared runway, had to hold for a while, parking brake on. Brakes seized. Couldn’t move, had to to tow in.



Another, LAS. Hot day. Landed 26L with AB 3 and made A5. Full stop to hold short of 26R. Brakes seized. Tow in.

If you make A5 at Vegas on a hot day, that’s just dumb.




So virtual airline put above clarification on AB usage and techniques and best temps.
 
ShortField said:
I don’t always like CC commentary, but when I do, he’s correct. Also, I can just about guarantee you that if you do have the reversers “stowed” at 80 kts, you didn’t give the engines time to spool back down to idle…..soooo don’t do that.
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yeah, it was an interesting 3 day with that dude.
 
ASpilot2be said:
We had this discussion today in recurrent. The new philosophy is idle reverse. It saves fuel, wear and tear on the engine, but it allows the carbon brakes to get warm and are more effective on the taxi in.
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Every (both) places that I've worked has gone back and forth on whether brakes are better or reverse. I just do what I'm told, it's not my airplane.

For those clicking the auto brakes off before taxi speed, it's not as smooth as you think it is in the back. Plus, if you actually care about brake temp/wear it's not really helpful. This is easy stuff, trying to figure out your own thing is brain cells that could be devoted to alcohol use.
 
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