Canceled Flight, CA arrested...Options

[Malko]

I saw this week a flight out of Scotland was canceled as one of the pilots were arrested. No mention of whether it was the CA or FO but doesnt matter. Question.. what options do one or the other crew members have if they are aware.... Suppose the offender doesnt take a suggestion to call out sick. What if the other refuses the flight at that point? How about another crew member ? Is it if they show up at the airport or whenever they cross the threshold that is the point of no return.

 

[CFI A&P]

In the US, the allowable BAC is higher than many other countries. I’m not 100% positive but I think Scotland is .02%, which means it is far easier to get yourself in that situation than one might realize.

Not being a crew base, or a city with several flights a day, if any crew member calls out sick, it’ll cause a delay or cancellation. If the offender doesn’t take the hint, the other crew member calling out might be able to prevent the flight that day, but the underlining problem may not get addressed.

 

[invadertim]

What it comes down to is this; if you have reason to believe any crew member isn't fit for duty, and they won't listen to advice to call in sick, don't board the aircraft. Regardless of the reason, you aren't leaving, and neither are they, might just be what it takes to get them to see reason. This also protects you, you are taking positive unambiguous steps to protect the safety of the flight.

If you get the first bit of blowback from the company, respond with a resignation letter, you'll be better off in the end. Highly unlikely it will come to that these days though.

Won't be easy in any event, but that's why you get the big bucks.

These are the drunk rules...

 

[invadertim]

I can't think of any scenario where someone at a dream legacy job would take the fall for a guy willing to brush everyone off and show up to work unfit like that. If they were willing to push it to that point I sure wouldn't be falling on any sword to cover for them.

I wasn't suggesting taking a fall, a company that would discipline me over a legitimate safety decision would become the company I used to work for. But as I said, very unlikely to occur these days, more likely you'll be thanked.

 

[JordanD]

I wasn't suggesting taking a fall, a company that would discipline me over a legitimate safety decision would become the company I used to work for. But as I said, very unlikely to occur these days, more likely you'll be thanked.

Yeah, coffee hasn't quite kicked in and I didn't really read your posts too clearly.

 

[thevideographer]

In the US, the allowable BAC is higher than many other countries. I’m not 100% positive but I think Scotland is .02%, which means it is far easier to get yourself in that situation than one might realize.

Do other countries ever do random drug/alcohol tests before flights? Honest question, I have no idea. Otherwise I imagine someone would have to be quite a bit over 0.02 for it to draw attention, unless someone else reported that they were at the bar the night before.

 

[GypsyPilot]

Do other countries ever do random drug/alcohol tests before flights? Honest question, I have no idea. Otherwise I imagine someone would have to be quite a bit over 0.02 for it to draw attention, unless someone else reported that they were at the bar the night before.

Japan supposedly can, but otherwise I’ve never heard of it happening anywhere in Asia. I would assume other western countries in Europe can and will do it.

Here’s the article for the flight in question:

Delta Air Lines pilot arrested for drinking too much alcohol before flight

A Delta Air Lines pilot was taken into custody on suspicion of consuming too much alcohol just before he was scheduled to fly from Scotland to New York, officials say. The flight was canceled. The pilot, a 61-year-old man, was arrested at Edinburgh Airport at around 10 a.m. on Friday, about 30...

bnonews.com

Scotland definitely has the reputation for no tolerance, and the article above mentions the 2016 incident involving a United pilot.

Now that I’m in my 40s I rarely drink much at all when I’m on a trip, as my sleep really suffers. That’s probably a good thing, it’s just not worth it.

 

[invadertim]

I saw a documentary about Aeroflot a few years back, supposedly they do a blood draw when you report in for a trip. Putin’s Russia, etc…

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Japan supposedly can, but otherwise I’ve never heard of it happening anywhere in Asia. I would assume other western countries in Europe can and will do it.

Here’s the article for the flight in question:

Delta Air Lines pilot arrested for drinking too much alcohol before flight

A Delta Air Lines pilot was taken into custody on suspicion of consuming too much alcohol just before he was scheduled to fly from Scotland to New York, officials say. The flight was canceled. The pilot, a 61-year-old man, was arrested at Edinburgh Airport at around 10 a.m. on Friday, about 30...

bnonews.com

Scotland definitely has the reputation for no tolerance, and the article above mentions the 2016 incident involving a United pilot.

Now that I’m in my 40s I rarely drink much at all when I’m on a trip, as my sleep really suffers. That’s probably a good thing, it’s just not worth it.

Yup. With my hangovers as I get older, I have a two beer limit if I’m flying the next day. Just not worth it.

 

[CFI A&P]

Do other countries ever do random drug/alcohol tests before flights? Honest question, I have no idea. Otherwise I imagine someone would have to be quite a bit over 0.02 for it to draw attention, unless someone else reported that they were at the bar the night before.

I’ve never been to Scotland, so don’t know this first hand but I’m told by friends that fly across the pond to EASA-land, and they say random breathalyzers are common in that region.

When flying 91/135, you’re often going through the FBO and it is a different experience. Rarely the officer has any concern other than if the GenDec is to their satisfacrion. You’d have to be stumbling over before they’d speak up.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I saw this week a flight out of Scotland was canceled as one of the pilots were arrested. No mention of whether it was the CA or FO but doesnt matter. Question.. what options do one or the other crew members have if they are aware.... Suppose the offender doesnt take a suggestion to call out sick. What if the other refuses the flight at that point? How about another crew member ? Is it if they show up at the airport or whenever they cross the threshold that is the point of no return.

Good way to end a career at Delta Airlines. Or any Airline for that matter.




If I know you as FO are drunk, you’re calling out sick. And if you won’t do it, I’m gonna call out you’re sick for you - and don’t make me tell them why I’m doing it. So you WILL call out, period.

 

[derg]

Do other countries ever do random drug/alcohol tests before flights? Honest question, I have no idea. Otherwise I imagine someone would have to be quite a bit over 0.02 for it to draw attention, unless someone else reported that they were at the bar the night before.

Oh yes, absolutely they do.

AMS regularly has breathalyzers at the entrance to the “flight data center” where you do your flight planning.

All airlines at least have an 8 hours “bottle to throttle” rule, but my carrier is 0.00%/“No traceable amount”.

A breathalyzer result which may fly in the US can blow as a positive in the EU because they use a more sensitive device.

I generally use a ”no hard liquor”, and stop at 12 hours prior to alarm clock time rule for myself. I’m usually up 90 minutes prior to the van time for a workout and breakfast so it naturally builds a wide buffer.

 

[///AMG]

I'm a no more than 2, beer only, unless the flight home is like the next night. Also nothing inside 12. I think our company rules allow slightly inside this, but not enough to make it worth it. Most of the time, if it isn't a 30 hr layover, it is an 11 hr and I land at midnight and I'm too tired, so it is a pretty binary situation. My eyes are always bloodshot after a day flying the eye dryer, so I'm too paranoid about that already.

 

[derg]

I think it's the operation. When I was domestic, most of the time I was just tired. If I was doing OE, I was REALLY tired and didn't do a heck of a lot besides a walk, dinner and a couple beers MAX depending on the layover time.

International, traditionally, is a lot of swashbuckling. I've seen people lose track of time fairly often, especially when they have early pickups. I had a couple of beers on OE to AMS, but we had a 0540 van time and my last beer was about 1500. The other guy was like "lets drop in here for another one" and I declined as "I know me" so I went back to the hotel and he stayed out and invariably ran into some other crews there. He was fine the next day but man, I'm SUPER PARANOID in Amsterdam. In fact, all of my newbie JC'ers that went international off the bat, I give them the "dad chat" about "8 hours versus 'traceable amount' versus EU measurements"

 

[Richman]

I have a rigid no drinks prior to/during a trip. Over. Done. If I want a cocktail with a meal while out when at home, someone else drives or I do an Uber/Lyft to/from. Hyper-conservative, granted, but that's just how I roll. That flat, lukewarm Michelob Ultra isn't worth the trouble.

 

[ppragman]

I have a rigid no drinks prior to/during a trip. Over. Done. If I want a cocktail with a meal while out when at home, someone else drives or I do an Uber/Lyft to/from. Hyper-conservative, granted, but that's just how I roll. That flat, lukewarm Michelob Ultra isn't worth the trouble.

This is very smart.

 

[///AMG]

This is very smart.

Messing around with this is probably the definition of pointless. Any intelligent person can find many more nights at home to enjoy an adult beverage when it isn't a working night. And I absolutely second the notion of always having a driver after even a drink or two....just ask my wife who loves driving me in such instances (hey girl, you wanna drive me real bad home while I front seat drive and complain about every mistake you make?)

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I have a rigid no drinks prior to/during a trip. Over. Done. If I want a cocktail with a meal while out when at home, someone else drives or I do an Uber/Lyft to/from. Hyper-conservative, granted, but that's just how I roll. That flat, lukewarm Michelob Ultra isn't worth the trouble.

Lyft or walk it is, if anything more than one drink is consumed.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I’m usually up 90 minutes prior to the van time for a workout and breakfast so it naturally builds a wide buffer.

Petit-dejuner is required for dispatch westbound.

 

[tlove482]

I don't understand the obsession over alcohol. It can't be the taste. Is it addictive or do the effects feel really good? It seems very risky to drink at all the day before a flight. Everyone's metabolism is different.