Jet fighters chase small plane in Washington area before it crashes in Virginia (Citation OA9-ISP)

turbulance? If it was determined that no one on board was going to regain consciousness before it ran out of fuel, it is possible the decision was made to shoot it down over an unpopulated area rather than risk it going down over a population center like TYS or BNA
 
CFI A&P said:
Gravity. Or more specifically, a reduction in whatever force existed that was opposing gravity and maintaining the balance of level flight.
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Yeah, maybe the airplane turning? Maybe a pocket of turbulence? Maybe a head leaned back that suddenly leaned forward? There are also physiological reactions to hypoxia that include flailing of the body.....so perhaps they were unconscious but not yet deceased?

This is all just one theory that popped into my head, amongst many other possibilities. I'd say the vast majority are more likely than an AF fighter shooting them down.
 
greg1016 said:
turbulance? If it was determined that no one on board was going to regain consciousness before it ran out of fuel, it is possible the decision was made to shoot it down over an unpopulated area rather than risk it going down over a population center like TYS or BNA
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I would be very surprised if this were ever part of a decision matrix anywhere. Small jets have gone into neighborhoods before, with tragic results that are relatively small scale. We haven't shot down any aircraft (to my knowledge) in US airspace, much less an N registered civilian aircraft on a flight plan who is just NORDO. That would be a pretty massive precedent to set, without much return on investment.
 
Total speculation and I have no knowledge of 500 series Citations but could it be as simple as the autopilot was just holding altitude and when it flamed out that it stalled and spun? Flightaware shows that it was filed to CCC then ISP so that explains the turn to the southwest if it was still was in whatever NAV/LNAV mode it has.
 
arkflyr said:
Total speculation and I have no knowledge of 500 series Citations but could it be as simple as the autopilot was just holding altitude and when it flamed out that it stalled and spun? Flightaware shows that it was filed to CCC then ISP so that explains the turn to the southwest if it was still was in whatever NAV/LNAV mode it has.
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Getting an airplane to spin at 28,000FPM takes more talent than an unconscious pilot has...
 
arkflyr said:
Total speculation and I have no knowledge of 500 series Citations but could it be as simple as the autopilot was just holding altitude and when it flamed out that it stalled and spun? Flightaware shows that it was filed to CCC then ISP so that explains the turn to the southwest if it was still was in whatever NAV/LNAV mode it has.
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That’s what typically happens in these cases yeah
 
Inverted said:
Getting an airplane to spin at 28,000FPM takes more talent than an unconscious pilot has...
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Well Lears and Citations are very different animals but from the Payne Stewart crash.

One NODAK 32 airplane remained to the west, while one TULSA 13 airplane broke away from the tanker and followed N47BA down. At 1211:26 CDT, the NODAK 32 lead pilot reported, “the target is descending and he is doing multiple aileron rolls, looks like he’s out of control...in a severe descent, request an emergency descent to follow target.” The TULSA 13 pilot reported, “It’s soon to impact the ground he is in a descending spiral.”
 
Inverted said:
Getting an airplane to spin at 28,000FPM takes more talent than an unconscious pilot has...
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I have no familiarity with this aircraft, but when I have seen this type of ROD in an airplane myself, it has been in a deeply stalled/very high AoA (60+) condition. Momentary and intentional mind you. Run of the mill straight wing spin probably wouldn't put you there though, at least not with a lot of aggravating control/power inputs.
 
I see this is a Citation V (serial number 560-0091).

I have a bunch of time in the V as well as other 500 series Citations. The V is pretty old and many of them have been highly modified with aftermarket avionics. GPS, MFD, autopilots, etc. Picture the spectrum of panels out there in your random Bonanza or 182.

I've also seen how these Frankenstein avionics packages don't always link together very well. The GPS doesn't do a good job talking to the autopilot, etc.

The V was certified requiring a two pilot crew, but it is possible to get special training and a waiver to operate it domestically single pilot.

I say this because without a picture of the panel, and/or seeing the exact STCs installed, and/or knowing the crew involved, it's impossible to say, "They probably programmed it for this and then this happened and therefore that was the result."

It's almost like we need some professional investigators to figure it out.
 
I wonder how much it'd cost to add a hypoxia recognition auto descent to the more common avionics packages. Garmin already has it in the G3000.

For anything with an autothrottle and cabin pressure sensors, it seems like it'd mostly just be a software add on... but I also have no idea what I'm talking about and have an expertise on par with an old man arguing in a Facebook comment section.
 
The amount of red tape of checklists and clearances it (rightly) takes to shoot down a US registered aircraft over the USA, is pretty big. It’s not an arbitrarily made decision. Especially if it’s not a hijacking or suspected terrorist event, but is an airborne emergency.

Would have been interesting to have seen foreign fighter jets right after 9/11 when they intercepted a US jet over the US, and if it had truly been a hijacking, what would have happened.
 
bike21 said:
Not sure, but why shoot it down at that point? Well past D.C. and no immediately apparent harm.
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If they did, I’d assume it was over unpopulated location, with Knoxville, Nashville and Atlanta relatively in its path soon. Maybe filed flight plan fuel put it over one of those cities on current path?
 
arkflyr said:
Well Lears and Citations are very different animals but from the Payne Stewart crash.

One NODAK 32 airplane remained to the west, while one TULSA 13 airplane broke away from the tanker and followed N47BA down. At 1211:26 CDT, the NODAK 32 lead pilot reported, “the target is descending and he is doing multiple aileron rolls, looks like he’s out of control...in a severe descent, request an emergency descent to follow target.” The TULSA 13 pilot reported, “It’s soon to impact the ground he is in a descending spiral.”
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I stand corrected.
 
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