CFI reinstatement via II add-on

[rframe]

Hi all, my wife and I spent the last two years developing a piece of property, building a house, and a shop. In the busyness I neglected to do my FIRC on time (yeah yeah, I'm an idiot). Since I just purchased a Cessna 140 for some family fun, two of my teenage children have taken an interest in learning, so I'd like to see about re-instating my CFI.

I never did my CFI-I ride though I was endorsed and scheduled for it several years ago when prolonged fall weather (ice) shut us down at the time, so I think doing this add-on would make the most sense and be the least expensive route.

Any recommendations on preparation or things that might've changed over the past 5 years, or other considerations I should think about?

I've heard there's an effort to make the FIRC less ridiculous on timing requirements, but I'm sure that's quite a ways off if it gets traction at all.

 

[killbilly]

There are some really good "everything you need to know about IFR flying" packets out there - usually about a 20-page distillation of all the regulations and rules and procedures. Have seen several on the internet - the PilotsCafe IFR package is solid. There are others.

Are you going to be doing this in your airplane or another one? If another airplane, chances are it's modded somewhat, which means you need to know the procedures and systems cold. Also worth knowing the STCs on the plane and how they govern what can and can't be done for IFR vs. VFR. Most pilots and CFIs know all of the equipment requirements, but few delve into the STCs on modded airplanes and have an understanding of what can and can't be deferred for a given operation. Several DPEs have told me they're focusing more on this as avionics are getting both more sophisticated and cheaper.

 

[DE727UPS]

I like the ASA IFR oral exam guide as a good summary of what's important for the IFR checkride. I don't think the CFII ride is a big deal but you'll certainly need to really up on all things IFR. As what's changed in the last five years, for myself, it's GPS stuff and the capabilities of whatever is in the plane you will be using, this ADSB in and out, and Foreflight/EFK. That's not necessarily just IFR but those are the things that have been my biggest challenges trying to jump back into GA and instructing. Agree with Killbilly above that you need to be very up on whatever is in the plane you use for training. Like, be able to show in the logbooks where the GPS was signed off for IFR use after install. I think finding a school/instructor that has signed off a CFII before would be an asset. Maybe hard to find. Are you still around N Idaho? I can't remember.

 

[rframe]

Are you going to be doing this in your airplane or another one?

The II would need to be done in another airplane as mine is not equipped. Most likely a rental 172 with dual G5's, 430W and AP. Good point on knowing the equipment and logs inside and out.

Agree with Killbilly above that you need to be very up on whatever is in the plane you use for training. Like, be able to show in the logbooks where the GPS was signed off for IFR use after install. I think finding a school/instructor that has signed off a CFII before would be an asset. Maybe hard to find. Are you still around N Idaho? I can't remember.

Yep, I am still in/around COE. There has been an explosion in flight training and GA activity there over the past few years, it really shocked me. Three active school/rental outfits and packed schedules. First thing I did to my new plane is order ADS-B as it feels like flying around a beehive compared to what I remember. I know there are at least a couple CFI candidates in process at the FBO I did my flight review with. I do know the DPE, so I'll try to chat with him as well. This may be a ways out, but trying to start figuring out a plan.

 

[killbilly]

The II would need to be done in another airplane as mine is not equipped. Most likely a rental 172 with dual G5's, 430W and AP. Good point on knowing the equipment and logs inside and out.



Yep, I am still in/around COE. There has been an explosion in flight training and GA activity there over the past few years, it really shocked me. Three active school/rental outfits and packed schedules. First thing I did to my new plane is order ADS-B as it feels like flying around a beehive compared to what I remember. I know there are at least a couple CFI candidates in process at the FBO I did my flight review with. I do know the DPE, so I'll try to chat with him as well. This may be a ways out, but trying to start figuring out a plan.

I need to come out to your neck of the woods. There is a back country flying course done in Kitfoxes up there that I've been itching to do for a while.

 

[DE727UPS]

Yeah, I'd talk to the DPE and see if he can recommend a CFI. I'm probably going to move to Palouse later this year and was hoping to buy an IFR trainer and do some instruction. I also have a RedbirdTD2 that can be used for IFR currency and 10 hours towards an instrument rating. Say hi to Barry Huck for me if you see him around COE. He left Western at SFF a few years ago and started his own avionics shop at COE.

 

[rframe]

I need to come out to your neck of the woods. There is a back country flying course done in Kitfoxes up there that I've been itching to do for a while.

Yeah Idaho backcountry has become a big deal, I think due to all the YouTubers and the STOL drag scene becoming so popular. I'm seeing a lot more Huskies, Kitfoxes, big tires and helmets. Gives me a few more cool points rolling around in a taildragger on tundra tires. I am pretty impatient for some of the bigger strips to dry out myself.

Say hi to Barry Huck for me if you see him around COE. He left Western at SFF a few years ago and started his own avionics shop at COE.

I saw there was a sign up for avionics but wasn't sure what/who it was all about. I hope he does well and might check in with him for an encoder check when needed. I got a quote for a uAvionix tail beacon install from Western and almost spit out my coffee when they wanted $800 for the install including $250 for "miscellaneous spare parts".... lol what spare parts? I literally installed it in 10 minutes and the one required butt connector was included. What a bunch of jokers.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

as avionics are getting both more sophisticated and cheaper.

The hell you say!

 

[killbilly]

The hell you say!

Yeah, I know, right?

I should have said that the prices were the same but the sophistication is going up.

Still, you can get a WAAS-capable GPS Navigator with moving map display for $5K brand new these days. Full NAVCOMs for $12-15K. That's really not awful these days. EFIS systems have gotten quite inexpensive for what they do these days, too - especially in Experimental World.

 

[Old Pete]

Yeah, I'd talk to the DPE and see if he can recommend a CFI. I'm probably going to move to Palouse later this year and was hoping to buy an IFR trainer and do some instruction. I also have a RedbirdTD2 that can be used for IFR currency and 10 hours towards an instrument rating. Say hi to Barry Huck for me if you see him around COE. He left Western at SFF a few years ago and started his own avionics shop at COE.

I second this advice. talk to a reasonable DPE, find out who his favorite instructor is. A couple of hrs , you'll be ready for your reinstatement ride.
It's nothing like the initial CFI

 

[drunkenbeagle]

Yeah, I know, right?

I should have said that the prices were the same but the sophistication is going up.

Still, you can get a WAAS-capable GPS Navigator with moving map display for $5K brand new these days. Full NAVCOMs for $12-15K. That's really not awful these days.

I've been pricing out a GNC355 / dual G5 panel upgrade. Adds up fast, just those end up being $20k+ installed. Experimentals are a lot better, not only is the same equipment cheaper, you can actually install it. Finding availability at an avionics shop isn't so easy right now.

 

[Roger Roger]

I've been pricing out a GNC355 / dual G5 panel upgrade. Adds up fast, just those end up being $20k+ installed. Experimentals are a lot better, not only is the same equipment cheaper, you can actually install it. Finding availability at an avionics shop isn't so easy right now.

And when you find availability, the talent pool out there for the shops to hire from isn’t deep. There have always been horror stories about picking up airplanes from vendors after major maintenance but anecdotally anyway it’s getting worse.

I have made a pretty pleasant side business doing installs and the odd annual locally though.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

And when you find availability, the talent pool out there for the shops to hire from isn’t deep. There have always been horror stories about picking up airplanes from vendors after major maintenance but anecdotally anyway it’s getting worse.

Also anecdotally from talking to someone just hired by an avionics shop - I wouldn't want them touching anything with wires or electricity.

 

[killbilly]

I've been pricing out a GNC355 / dual G5 panel upgrade. Adds up fast, just those end up being $20k+ installed. Experimentals are a lot better, not only is the same equipment cheaper, you can actually install it. Finding availability at an avionics shop isn't so easy right now.

I'm doing a Dynon EFIS/GNC355 with a G5 backup....the Dynon is in the experimental pricing category, and the experimental version of the G5 is 1/2 the cost of the certified version.

What I'm *really* learning is that the costs aren't in the hardware....it's the labor in the retrofit. I think, in terms of man hours, it would have been much easier to do this avionics panel as the builder than the retrofit that I'm doing now. Sorting the wiring out has been educational.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

What I'm *really* learning is that the costs aren't in the hardware....it's the labor in the retrofit. I think, in terms of man hours, it would have been much easier to do this avionics panel as the builder than the retrofit that I'm doing now. Sorting the wiring out has been educational.

Yep! The only real gripe I have with the current airplane is the antique NARCO 120 COMs. The audio outputs of those were capable of being wired in parallel. Even (newer) antique NARCOs that would fit the same trays can't handle being wired like that, so I would need to add an audio panel to even do that. Labor cost at that point makes new stuff a better idea.

 

[killbilly]

Yep! The only real gripe I have with the current airplane is the antique NARCO 120 COMs. The audio outputs of those were capable of being wired in parallel. Even (newer) antique NARCOs that would fit the same trays can't handle being wired like that, so I would need to add an audio panel to even do that. Labor cost at that point makes new stuff a better idea.

Maybe you could entice @Roger Roger to come down and supervise your installation of a nice little Garmin 245/345 audio panel and sign off on it.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

Maybe you could entice @Roger Roger to come down and supervise your installation of a nice little Garmin 245/345 audio panel and sign off on it.

Other than the "I don't know what I don't know" aspect of it, I can't see how I could possibly make the wiring any worse than it already is. Pretty sure custom wiring harnesses qualify as owner supplied parts.

 

[killbilly]

Other than the "I don't know what I don't know" aspect of it, I can't see how I could possibly make the wiring any worse than it already is. Pretty sure custom wiring harnesses qualify as owner supplied parts.

Dunno. Given that you'd get the parts the from the same source the A&P would, as long as they sign off on the work, I expect it would be okay, but I don't know what the rules are on certified avionics work.

I paid the dealer I bought my avionics from to build a number of harnesses for my gear (it's....ah.....a *complete* retrofit) and it was well worth the cost. I'm actually considering having them build a new one to replace one I was going to keep because they do such good work.

 

[Roger Roger]

Dunno. Given that you'd get the parts the from the same source the A&P would, as long as they sign off on the work, I expect it would be okay, but I don't know what the rules are on certified avionics work.

I paid the dealer I bought my avionics from to build a number of harnesses for my gear (it's....ah.....a *complete* retrofit) and it was well worth the cost. I'm actually considering having them build a new one to replace one I was going to keep because they do such good work.

This is a good way to do it for a full retrofit for sure. For any individual piece of gear guys like you and @drunkenbeagle have enough experience with wiring diagrams, protocols, etc that I’m sure you could do just fine working with an accommodating A&P. Of course part of it too is just having the tooling-a Daniels crimper and preferably a couple of the positioners. Then you can get into other stuff like the crimper for the sealed butt splices, battery cable crimpers…..I have a couple thousand dollars worth of just wiring tools and I have just what i have needed for the installs I’ve done.

 

[ahw01]

This is a good way to do it for a full retrofit for sure. For any individual piece of gear guys like you and @drunkenbeagle have enough experience with wiring diagrams, protocols, etc that I’m sure you could do just fine working with an accommodating A&P. Of course part of it too is just having the tooling-a Daniels crimper and preferably a couple of the positioners. Then you can get into other stuff like the crimper for the sealed butt splices, battery cable crimpers…..I have a couple thousand dollars worth of just wiring tools and I have just what i have needed for the installs I’ve done.

Good time to do the GROL or AET maybe?