Complete prohibitions of Russians by FAA

[Inverted25]

I asked my friendly local FSDO if I really needed to do American Flyers since my title is “chief pilot.” They told me that I could only renew my CFI based on duties and responsibilities if I worked for a 121/135 operation. Meanwhile in Wichita…my check airman status at a 91 shop worked great for a renewal…

They have started to crack down on who they let renew through duties and responsibilities at least my FSDO. They now require you to be a active checkairman for a 121/135 to renew it that way.


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[pwttogfk]

They have started to crack down on who they let renew through duties and responsibilities at least my FSDO. They now require you to be a active checkairman for a 121/135 to renew it that way.


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…because those are the only operators that meet that requirement. Like many FAA “good ideas,” dumb.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

I asked my friendly local FSDO if I really needed to do American Flyers since my title is “chief pilot.” They told me that I could only renew my CFI based on duties and responsibilities if I worked for a 121/135 operation. Meanwhile in Wichita…my check airman status at a 91 shop worked great for a renewal…

Well yea, otherwise anyone can be a chief pilot by just…saying they are.

 

[Tiptank]

Meaning, the occupant of that plane and that aircraft is operating for the benefit of this passenger occupant.



I don’t see the other interpretation. I just don’t. The commas and semi-colons are key to understanding.

You're not taking into account that the Russian pilot is benefitting from the flight. Unless he isn't getting paid, but then why bother?

 

[bimmerphile]

what does a 91 check airman do? what do they have to do to become a check airman?

 

[T/O w/FSII]

what does a 91 check airman do? what do they have to do to become a check airman?

Whatever they want to do, and, ask your boss I suppose. That’s why they aren’t afforded the same privileges. No matter if it’s ma and pa with a 182, or googles flight department. No oversight = not the same privileges. I can’t believe it’s even a discussion for some people.

 

[🦈💜]

The first two bolted parts SOLELY refer to the airplane. “All aircraft, regardless of the state, lease, charter, operated, or controlled by….”

That refers to the aircraft and its owner/operator. Regardless. As in Part 121, 135, 91, etc.


Next part talks about who the flight is operated for:

FOR, OR FOR THE BENEFIT OF, A PERSON WHO IS A CITIZEN OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ARE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING TO, FROM, WITHIN, OR
THROUGH U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE,


(aircraft operated) FOR, or FOR THE BENEFIT OF…. Citizen of Russian federation etc etc



Meaning, the occupant of that plane and that aircraft is operating for the benefit of this passenger occupant.



I don’t see the other interpretation. I just don’t. The commas and semi-colons are key to understanding.

I'm going to assume that this might be an ESL issue, as you alluded to. This is important, though, because it applies to basically all legalese in the US system, so I'm going to break it down a bit.

ALL RUSSIAN AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL OPERATORS, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF
REGISTRY OF THE AIRCRAFT;

In this case, the terminating semicolon is being used as a "super comma," since it's separating clauses that already have commas in them.

(For example:
Term A, Term B, and term C, if those terms have commas, becomes:
Term A, with commas; Term B, with commas; and Term C, with commas.)

ALL AIRCRAFT REGISTERED IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION;
ALL RUSSIAN STATE AIRCRAFT, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF REGISTRY OF THE AIRCRAFT;
AND ALL AIRCRAFT REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF REGISTRY, OWNED, CHARTERED, LEASED, OPERATED OR CONTROLLED BY,
FOR, OR FOR THE BENEFIT OF, A PERSON WHO IS A CITIZEN OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION

This translates to:
• All russian air carriers and commercial operators, regardless of where the aircraft is registered, AND
• Any aircraft registered in the Russian federation, AND
• Any russian state aircraft, AND
• Any aircraft that is owned, OR
— chartered, OR
— leased, OR
— operated by, OR FOR
— controlled by, OR FOR
—— a citizen of the Russian federation, OR
—— the BENEFIT of a citizen of the Russian federation:

ARE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING TO, FROM, WITHIN, OR THROUGH U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

@Acrofox

so what’s your interpretation for the English sentence that completes this statement:

“a citizen of the Russian federation”

What comes before it?


I believe this part “CONTROLLED BY,
FOR, OR FOR”

You leave out the first “for” and included the second part only, “or for”

Your statement should have two Fors in there. Right?

 

[MFT1Air]

I read it just fine. You’re wrong.

I don't blanket "no" @Cherokee_Cruiser comments, but I'm leaning in his direction as well.

Then again, big mistake for me perhaps. I'm already two shots into Pierre Ferrand.

 

[Beefy McGee]

What is the definition of "operator" here? The pilot, or the company that uses the plane to make money? If the "operator" is the pilot, then it says a Russian citizen pilot is hosed. If the "operator" is the company, then Russian citizen or dual citizen pilots should not be hosed. Russian students finishing flight school to work here should not be screwed out of a checkride either.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

@Cherokee_Cruiser I agree with your interpretation.

 

[killbilly]

What is the definition of "operator" here? The pilot, or the company that uses the plane to make money? If the "operator" is the pilot, then it says a Russian citizen pilot is hosed. If the "operator" is the company, then Russian citizen or dual citizen pilots should not be hosed. Russian students finishing flight school to work here should not be screwed out of a checkride either.

I had this conversation with our POI at the FSDO and he agrees that "operator" is ambiguous.

 

[dustoff17]

If you're a Russian (dual citizenship or not) pilot or student pilot, then you would, if fact, be benefitting from the flight regardless of whether it was for pay, hours, instruction, or a check ride. Right?

If my passenger holds a dual citizenship, can I fly him and his family (Part 91)?

 

[hammerhat]

From the thread with our POI:

• Dual Citizen US/Russia - can fly
• Dual Citizen Russia/3rd Country(non-us) - no fly
• Russian citizen with Green Card - no fly
• Russian citizen with Green Card or Visa and current TSA training approval - no fly
• Russian citizen, applied for US Citizenship, currently waiting for naturalization - no fly

 

[NovemberEcho]

New NOTAM with updated info. Basically if your name isn’t on the list (website given in notam) you’re good

FDC 2/2415 ZZZ PART 1 OF 2 SECURITY...SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS (SSI) PROHIBITION ON RUSSIAN FLIGHT OPERATIONS IN THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S. THIS NOTAM REPLACES FDC 2/9510 (KFDC A0048/22) FOR THE PURPOSE OF CLARIFYING APPLICABILITY. PURSUANT TO 49 USC SECTIONS 40103 AND 40113(A), ALL RUSSIAN AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL OPERATORS, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF REGISTRY OF THE AIRCRAFT; ALL AIRCRAFT REGISTERED IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION; ALL RUSSIAN STATE AIRCRAFT, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF REGISTRY OF THE AIRCRAFT; AND ALL AIRCRAFT, REGARDLESS OF THE STATE OF REGISTRY, OWNED, CHARTERED, LEASED, OPERATED OR CONTROLLED BY, FOR, OR FOR THE BENEFIT OF, A RUSSIAN PERSON OR ENTITY IDENTIFIED BY THE INTERNATIONAL TRADE ADMINISTRATION'S CONSOLIDATED SCREENING LIST (HTTPS://WWW.TRADE.GOV/CONSOLIDATED-SCREENING-LIST) ARE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING TO, FROM, WITHIN, OR THROUGH U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE, EXCEPT FOR AIRCRAFT ENGAGED IN HUMANITARIAN OR SAR OPERATIONS SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED BY THE FAA, STATE AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS GRANTED A DIPLOMATIC CLEARANCE BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE AND AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCING IN-FLIGHT EMERGENCIES. ALL EXCEPTED AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS UNDER THIS NOTAM MUST RECEIVE APPROPRIATE ECONOMIC AUTHORIZATION FROM THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 2203100500-2205252359 END PART 1 OF 2 !FDC 2/2415 ZZZ PART 2 OF 2 SECURITY...SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS (SSI) PRIOR TO CONDUCTING FLIGHT OPERATIONS TO, FROM, WITHIN, OR THROUGH U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE. AIRCRAFT OPERATORS SUBJECT TO THIS NOTAM WHO DO NOT COMPLY WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS MAY BE INTERCEPTED, AND THEIR PILOTS AND OTHER CREWMEMBERS DETAINED AND INTERVIEWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT OR SECURITY PERSONNEL, AS APPROPRIATE. ALL PREVIOUSLY OBTAINED FAA AUTHORIZATIONS FOR AIRCRAFT AND OPERATIONS SUBJECT TO THIS NOTAM TO OPERATE IN U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE ARE REVOKED. OPERATORS SUBJECT TO THIS NOTAM WISHING TO OBTAIN AN FAA AUTHORIZATION TO OPERATE IN U.S. TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE MUST SUBMIT A REQUEST TO THE FAA SYSTEM OPERATIONS SUPPORT CENTER (SOSC) AT 1-202-267-8276 OR EMAIL 9-ATOR-HQ-SOSC@FAA.GOV. REQUESTS FOR DOT ECONOMIC AUTHORIZATION MUST BE SUBMITTED TO THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF INTERNATIONAL AVIATION AT SCHEDULEFILING@DOT.GOV. SFC-UNL 2203100500-2205252359 END PART 2 OF 2

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Oh man, I look forward to the day NOTAMS can be written in plain, simple English that is easy to use/read. Not the gibberish above.


But hey, ALPA's Diversity and Inclusion jetBlue pilot Turrieta and FAA's Steve Dickson changed NOTAM to mean Notice to Air Missions! Apparently "Airmen" was not inclusive.

Thank God.


Because I kept hearing from all the women and non-binary pilots, "hey, I feel offended every time I read a NOTAM because of what the M stands for."



SAID.

NO.

ONE.

EVER.

 

[BigZ]

Oh man, I look forward to the day NOTAMS can be written in plain, simple English that is easy to use/read. Not the gibberish above.


But hey, ALPA's Diversity and Inclusion jetBlue pilot Turrieta and FAA's Steve Dickson changed NOTAM to mean Notice to Air Missions! Apparently "Airmen" was not inclusive.

Thank God.


Because I kept hearing from all the women and non-binary pilots, "hey, I feel offended every time I read a NOTAM because of what the M stands for."



SAID.

NO.

ONE.

EVER.

I'm here by refusing all the offensive assignments until they are officially renamed Junior Missions.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Because I kept hearing from all the women and non-binary pilots, "hey, I feel offended every time I read a NOTAM because of what the M stands for."

As long as I keep getting forty pages of balloon activity at 50ft AGL 300 miles off my route of flight, they can call them whatever they want. Can't be too careful!

 

[pwttogfk]

Whatever they want to do, and, ask your boss I suppose. That’s why they aren’t afforded the same privileges. No matter if it’s ma and pa with a 182, or googles flight department. No oversight = not the same privileges. I can’t believe it’s even a discussion for some people.

This is what FSDOs are for. Wichita was pretty comfortable that a big aircraft manufacturer with a 135 ticket, SMS, and ASAP had legit pilot evaluations going on. FSDOs should have discretion here. I think anyone who’s sat in a FBO in FL can agree not all 135s are created equal either.

 

[MFT1Air]

Here we go. The new Airplane Repo . . .season ??

Text - H.R.6869 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): To authorize the President of the United States to issue letters of marque and reprisal for the purpose of seizing the assets of certain Russian citizens, and for other purposes.

Text for H.R.6869 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): To authorize the President of the United States to issue letters of marque and reprisal for the purpose of seizing the assets of certain Russian citizens, and for other purposes.

www.congress.gov