Lost decade

killbilly said:
It ages badly. In fact, most of Heinlein does.
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I could not disagree more... except in the few cases where his work does age badly and makes me cringe. You also must remember that he was born ~114 years ago. Anything written during the 40's-50's-60's ages badly because of the jumps in technology that were extrapolated vs. not. We carry the sum of human knowledge in our pocket and books written back then still had characters doing paper astrogation and had a fundamental distrust of mechanical computers. RAH extrapolated much of his Naval experience during the dawn of Naval Aviation and copy/pasted it into his works. Much of that ages better than most. I still believe that he did more good than not and inspired generations of readers.
 
ClearedForOption said:
I could not disagree more... except in the few cases where his work does age badly and makes me cringe. You also must remember that he was born ~114 years ago. Anything written during the 40's-50's-60's ages badly because of the jumps in technology that were extrapolated vs. not. We carry the sum of human knowledge in our pocket and books written back then still had characters doing paper astrogation and had a fundamental distrust of mechanical computers. RAH extrapolated much of his Naval experience during the dawn of Naval Aviation and copy/pasted it into his works. Much of that ages better than most. I still believe that he did more good than not and inspired generations of readers.
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Plus he was right about rockets landing on their tails….



People claim all kinds of things about the polity of Starship Troopers, but haven’t bothered to read it, but only regurgitate what others have said. As for the movie, good popcorn flick, but it was already in production as something else, and Verhoeven admitted he didn’t even read the book.

The fact that we still can have robust conversations about it some 60+ years later over say, Ringworld, means there’s something compelling that we’re still talking about.
 
The newhires with hundreds of hours were a short-lived phenomenon that occurred in the midst of the lost decade.

Why? Because the majors parked several narrowbody types and outsourced that flying to the commuters after 9/11. Suddenly there's this armada of 50-70 seat jets darkening the sky (the same size as F28, F100, Bac1-11, and only slightly smaller than DC9-30 btw..) and they needed a plethora of pilots to fly them.

The pilots most impacted by the lost decade were those who started their careers in the late 90s and spent the lost decade either furloughed or stuck at the regionals unable to move on.

The hiring requirements in 1995/1996 to be a copilot in a 19-30 seat turboprop included MINIMUMS of 1500 hours TT and 500 ME. (Plus that little $10,000 PFT investment we don't like to talk about anymore*...)

* Allegheny, Piedmont, and the Eagle carriers didn't participate in PFT but their competitive hiring minimums were significantly higher as a result. Comair had their own school in Sanford and didn't take part in the FSI scheme.


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ZapBrannigan said:
The newhires with hundreds of hours were a short-lived phenomenon that occurred in the midst of the lost decade.

Why? Because the majors parked several narrowbody types and outsourced that flying to the commuters after 9/11. Suddenly there's this armada of 50-70 seat jets darkening the sky (the same size as F28, F100, Bac1-11, and only slightly smaller than DC9-30 btw..) and they needed a plethora of pilots to fly them.


The pilots most impacted by the lost decade were those who started their careers in the late 90s and spent the lost decade either furloughed or stuck at the regionals unable to move on.

The hiring requirements in 1995/1996 to be a copilot in a 19-30 seat turboprop included MINIMUMS of 1500 hours TT and 500 ME. (Plus that little $10,000 PFT investment we don't like to talk about anymore*...)

* Allegheny, Piedmont, and the Eagle carriers didn't participate in PFT but their competitive hiring minimums were significantly higher as a result. Comair had their own school in Sanford and didn't take part in the FSI scheme.


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This is true. The hiring of pilots with sub-1000 times were extremely brief periods, which the wannabes conveniently ignore.
Of course, they love to point out the late-60s where some majors were hiring off the street with low times, and even advertised in Flying. They ignore the fact that essentially all of those positions were Flight Engineers, and the pre-deregulation training envelope was wildly different than today. Plus practically every one of those pilots were furloughed come 1972.

Lost decade pilots started before the 90s, and the number is rather underestimated. Pilots who started their careers even in the late 80s got a double dose…they suffered through Gulf War 1, and depending on where they were in the pipeline, only enjoyed a brief time in the sun when things went back into high speed rewind.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Sure, if fascism is your fetish.
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You know, I enjoy gta on the PlayStation but stealing cars isn’t my fetish lol. I also listen to heavy metal and don’t worship satan!

One can simply find something entertaining. The movie is great and the book is a fun read, especially through the lens of having seen the movie first and knowing the story behind its production.
 
ClearedForOption said:
I could not disagree more... except in the few cases where his work does age badly and makes me cringe. You also must remember that he was born ~114 years ago. Anything written during the 40's-50's-60's ages badly because of the jumps in technology that were extrapolated vs. not. We carry the sum of human knowledge in our pocket and books written back then still had characters doing paper astrogation and had a fundamental distrust of mechanical computers. RAH extrapolated much of his Naval experience during the dawn of Naval Aviation and copy/pasted it into his works. Much of that ages better than most. I still believe that he did more good than not and inspired generations of readers.
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I don't want to - even accidentally - ruin something that someone else enjoys. There are aspects of Heinlein's work that I, personally, find objectionable, but that's fine. I will say, though, that the issues of aging, to me, have nothing to do with the jumps in technology. At all.
 
Derg said:
Pilots can be some of the dumbest most idiotic people you’ll ever meet. Sad, but true!

Think about the guys around the airport earning almost a half-million dollars per year complaining because the line at Chipotle is long and how the airline discount is only 10%

If it doesn’t affect them, it doesn’t exist.
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Pilots aren't special, and they aren't unique. This mentality exists across all spectrums.
 
Adler said:
311 when I got hired into the CRJ. And training at that time was "you don't need to know that, that's captain stuff". Really stupid.
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I had a captain tell me I was a lot more involved than some FOs for something I thought was really basic. "Umm, do people not realize they violate the crew and not just the captain?"
 
ShortField said:
Good movie reference, but not all engineers share this affliction.
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I’ve seen plenty of dedicated, trained “customer service” employees suck hard at actual customer service, so I’m not really sure this point is relevant.

It’s one thing to suck at something not in your job description, quite another to suck at something that is.
 
Richman said:
I’ve seen plenty of dedicated, trained “customer service” employees suck hard at actual customer service, so I’m not really sure this point is relevant.

It’s one thing to suck at something not in your job description, quite another to suck at something that is.
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The point is CC is using it as an excuse for having limited emotional intelligence.
 
ShortField said:
The point is CC is using it as an excuse for having limited emotional intelligence.
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I mean, he's actually right on that. There are certainly engineers who are high EQ. But if we were doing personality testing for good engineers who thoroughly enjoy their work, they'll almost all be low in the EQ department. I just went through two days of personality testing training with Culture Index, one of the leading providers of this sort of testing, and they talked a good deal about the ideal profile of an engineer. Social skills were not high on the list.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
I mean, he's actually right on that. There are certainly engineers who are high EQ. But if we were doing personality testing for good engineers who thoroughly enjoy their work, they'll almost all be low in the EQ department. I just went through two days of personality testing training with Culture Index, one of the leading providers of this sort of testing, and they talked a good deal about the ideal profile of an engineer. Social skills were not high on the list.
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Which is fine as long as they’re locked away in a design lab or at home with their nerdy hobbies. When you put that personality profile in a place where they have to interact with a second crewmember, flight attendants, maintenance, dispatch, passengers…..
 
Roger Roger said:
Which is fine as long as they’re locked away in a design lab or at home with their nerdy hobbies. When you put that personality profile in a place where they have to interact with a second crewmember, flight attendants, maintenance, dispatch, passengers…..
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Agreed. Which is my I'm surprised that more airlines don't do personality testing.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Agreed. Which is my I'm surprised that more airlines don't do personality testing.
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It seems to me one issue would be people trying to game the system by answering in ways that match the ideal profile, but I’m sure there are various ways that the testers try to prevent that. Did they go into any of that in your class?
 
Um, pretty sure VX had one of the lowest hire rate for interviewees and one of the biggest discriminators was personality and how they thought you’d fit with other people.

I guess a forum just doesn’t do justice. In person, you’d see that I do just fine with fellow crew members. I’m actually really nice.
 
Roger Roger said:
It seems to me one issue would be people trying to game the system by answering in ways that match the ideal profile, but I’m sure there are various ways that the testers try to prevent that. Did they go into any of that in your class?
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Yes, they didn’t explain how their magic works, but they use some sort of statistical modeling to determine what they call an “avoidance pattern,” which indicates someone trying to game it.

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Um, pretty sure VX had one of the lowest hire rate for interviewees and one of the biggest discriminators was personality and how they thought you’d fit with other people.

I guess a forum just doesn’t do justice. In person, you’d see that I do just fine with fellow crew members. I’m actually really nice.
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I can actually vouch for him on this. I’ve had dinner with him, and he’s pretty normal (for a pilot). As with all people (myself included), social media brings out the worst in him.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Yes, they didn’t explain how their magic works, but they use some sort of statistical modeling to determine what they call an “avoidance pattern,” which indicates someone trying to game it.



I can actually vouch for him on this. I’ve had dinner with him, and he’s pretty normal (for a pilot). As with all people (myself included), social media brings out the worst in him.
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Now kiss
 
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