Joining ATP

word302 said:
Correct, but ATP does over 100 hours of training in a Seminole that could be done in a cheap single. Part of the reason why the cost is so high.
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That's how it used to be, but it looks like they've changed that to just 25 hours of multi time Airline Career Pilot Program / ATP Flight School

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word302 said:
Interesting. That was always the draw before (more multi). Why would someone spend the extra money now?
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Time frame? Beats me, that $60k for 217 hours breaks down to about $276/hour which probably wouldn't be unreasonable if the majority of flying were still in a Seminole. When I went through in '06 the only time you touched a single was for the CFI/Comm SEL, maybe 10 hours total I think. The program was also about $20K less iirc. How they pull people into paying that kind of money to fly a Skyhawk/Archer is beyond me.
 
guywhoflies said:
I would say a major difference between ATP and a smaller operation is you may be able to choose your instructor at a smaller company but ATP would basically tell people to "suck it up because you don't get to pick your instructor at the airlines" if they complained about their instructor.
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When I went through, and maybe it's just because our facility director at the time was a pretty nice guy, it was made abundantly clear to the students that changing instructors was not an issue and if you couldn't get alone or didn't feel you and your instructor meshed that you could request a new instructor. My instructor left when I was finishing my commercial multi and I did not like the guy who was assigned to replace him. Five minute conversation with the training manager and I had been reassigned to another instructor with no argument or resistance on his part.
 
killbilly said:
Interesting. Given how small a world aviation is, you'd think those instructors who didn't care would somehow find a comeuppance when they got to an airline...since they may very well be flying with former students.
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They would probably end up on some "no fly" lists at some point. Some airlines allow pilots to avoid being paired with certain pilots. At my airline, FOs can avoid CAs, but not the other way around.

I should also say that my instructors were generally awesome at ATP circa '06-'07. I haven't been around the company in 10 years so I don't know how the culture is today.
 
n156499000 said:
When I went through, and maybe it's just because our facility director at the time was a pretty nice guy, it was made abundantly clear to the students that changing instructors was not an issue and if you couldn't get alone or didn't feel you and your instructor meshed that you could request a new instructor. My instructor left when I was finishing my commercial multi and I did not like the guy who was assigned to replace him. Five minute conversation with the training manager and I had been reassigned to another instructor with no argument or resistance on his part.
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Good to know, I remember some students calling JK in the HQ and him telling them something along the lines of my quote. I think the big bases that had managers had more flexibility. It seemed that the smaller locations with only a couple instructors were the places that students were stuck with who they got. And even CRG was definitely that way when I was there.
 
Aaronvandagriff said:
How do I find CFI's in my area to get my PPL?
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There's really three ways:

1) Go to a local flight school at the airport. Might be a mom n' pop (like most) or might be something a little bigger like American Flyers or Monarch.
2) Do some searching/calling around seeking out a flying club. These are increasingly popular. Where are you located?
3) Look at the bulletin boards at the local airports, and the business card stacks at the pilot shops/flight schools. Ask around.

Where are you located? I bet someone around here knows someone.

There's another option, too, and it's a radical departure from the ATP route:

If you have the means, you could take a couple lessons to see if you really like flying, and if you do, consider buying an airplane and hiring a CFI freelancer to teach you in it. Sell it when you're done with it. Good quality training aircraft hold their value exceptionally well these days.

It's not for the faint of heart, and this is why flying clubs are often preferred (shared/fractional ownership) to defray the costs. I've used flying clubs for both my PPL and my CSEL, and I'm still a member of an excellent one. The flexibility is outstanding.
 
killbilly said:
There's really three ways:

1) Go to a local flight school at the airport. Might be a mom n' pop (like most) or might be something a little bigger like American Flyers or Monarch.
2) Do some searching/calling around seeking out a flying club. These are increasingly popular. Where are you located?
3) Look at the bulletin boards at the local airports, and the business card stacks at the pilot shops/flight schools. Ask around.

Where are you located? I bet someone around here knows someone.

There's another option, too, and it's a radical departure from the ATP route:

If you have the means, you could take a couple lessons to see if you really like flying, and if you do, consider buying an airplane and hiring a CFI freelancer to teach you in it. Sell it when you're done with it. Good quality training aircraft hold their value exceptionally well these days.

It's not for the faint of heart, and this is why flying clubs are often preferred (shared/fractional ownership) to defray the costs. I've used flying clubs for both my PPL and my CSEL, and I'm still a member of an excellent one. The flexibility is outstanding.
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If I had it to do over again I would have found 2 or 3 buddies to partner up with and buy a plane
 
So if you guys where gonna go into schooling this year for flight what school would you go into considering the fact of the expense? With ATP from zero its 76k and with mtsu its 73k over 4 years.
 
Aaronvandagriff said:
So if you guys where gonna go into schooling this year for flight what school would you go into considering the fact of the expense? With ATP from zero its 76k and with mtsu its 73k over 4 years.
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I know I told you this elsewhere - but MTSU gets you a degree for that 73K. ATP does not. What ATP offers is speed in a really high-pressure environment. If that's your thing, ok. It "works" for some people especially some of the mid-life career changers who had the money saved up to absorb the cost and pay cut during training and bridge into the new career. It's not for everyone - it may or may not be for you - one thing to consider is how you are going to pay for training.
 
killbilly said:
The multi-time building is the main part of their value proposition. The people I know who successfully did their programs, to a man, said that there was no spoon-feeding of the material - you had to be disciplined about your study and seek the (unlimited at the time) ground training to help shore up your weak points. What ATP provides is a lot of multi-time on a challenging, but do-able schedule. On time and on budget.

EDIT: disclaimer: I have not trained there - chose not to some years ago. Knowing what I know now, I might have done things a little differently.
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Did I tell that to you? If not, it tracks because that was my exact experience with ATP. I went there already with a PPL/Instrument, so I had study skills and knew what was expected when it came to writtens / checkrides.
 
word302 said:
Lol. You're talking about spending over $70k on your ratings. I'm talking about splitting the cost of a $30k-$40k airplane 3 or 4 ways and saving thousands of dollars.
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And then he and his partners can sell the plane for very close to what they paid for it.
 
I don't think you've told us where you're located, unless I totally missed it.
I would recommend checking out AOPA's flight school finder, AOPA Flight School Finder
This might help you locating a good school. You can also give them a call if you want to talk it over with someone.

While you're figuring all this out, try to read/study now so that you can save yourself time down the line.
 
word302 said:
Lol. You're talking about spending over $70k on your ratings. I'm talking about splitting the cost of a $30k-$40k airplane 3 or 4 ways and saving thousands of dollars.
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That's often easier said than done. I'm in the process of co-buying a much cheaper aircraft than what you listed and we've already spent a small fortune getting it ready for delivery. By the time you've factored in pre-buy inspections, travel costs to see the aircraft, inspection costs, insurance, storage, future ADS-B compliance ($3,000+ alone right there), taxes, fuel, oil, maintenance, etc. it can end up being more effort (and money) than simply going to a flight school. Time will tell for us.

That's not even taking into account if something major breaks, which is probably going to happen on an older, cheaper airplane.
 
Constellation said:
That's often easier said than done. I'm in the process of co-buying a much cheaper aircraft than what you listed and we've already spent a small fortune getting it ready for delivery. By the time you've factored in pre-buy inspections, travel costs to see the aircraft, inspection costs, insurance, storage, future ADS-B compliance ($3,000+ alone right there), taxes, fuel, oil, maintenance, etc. it can end up being more effort (and money) than simply going to a flight school. Time will tell for us.

That's not even taking into account if something major breaks, which is probably going to happen on an older, cheaper airplane.
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Not to mention my town is not big on aviation so that makes this all that much harder
 
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