Again? FAA investigates another Air Canada landing mix-up at SFO

RDoug

RDoug

Well-Known Member
Again? FAA investigates another Air Canada landing mix-up at SFO

Excerpts:
  • Just three months after an Air Canada plane nearly landed on a crowded SFO taxiway, the FAA has launched another investigation into why a second passenger jet from that airline Sunday ignored a San Francisco air traffic controller’s repeated order to abort a landing.

  • . . . as the plane approached, an air traffic controller repeated six straight times for the Air Canada pilot to execute a “go-around” . . .

  • After it landed safely, the Air Canada crew alerted the tower it had a radio problem, Gregor said. “That’s pretty evident,” a frustrated air traffic controller told the flight crew. The controller then guided the plane to the proper taxiway, according to the radio recording.
 
I like how the "retired airline pilot" commenting clearly didn't understand what happened because the SWA WAS clear of the runway, the tower just wasn't sure when they tried to send the ACA around.

Retired commercial airline pilot Ross Aimer said the incident left him shaking his head.

“Pilots must exercise extreme caution to make sure the runway is cleared of the previously landing traffic,” he said. “In this case because Southwest did not exit the runway in time, Air Canada should have promptly gone around, even without the controller telling them what to do. Radio discipline is extremely important as well. If one radio goes silence for any reason, there are other radios they can quickly switch to.”
 
NovemberEcho said:
I like how the "retired airline pilot" commenting clearly didn't understand what happened because the SWA WAS clear of the runway, the tower just wasn't sure when they tried to send the ACA around.

Retarded commercial airline pilot Ross Aimer said the incident left him shaking his head.

“Pilots must exercise extreme caution to make sure the runway is cleared of the previously landing traffic,” he said. “In this case because Southwest did not exit the runway in time, Air Canada should have promptly gone around, even without the controller telling them what to do. Radio discipline is extremely important as well. If one radio goes silence for any reason, there are other radios they can quickly switch to.”
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FIFY
 
NovemberEcho said:
I like how the "retired airline pilot" commenting clearly didn't understand what happened because the SWA WAS clear of the runway, the tower just wasn't sure when they tried to send the ACA around.

Retired commercial airline pilot Ross Aimer said the incident left him shaking his head.

“Pilots must exercise extreme caution to make sure the runway is cleared of the previously landing traffic,” he said. “In this case because Southwest did not exit the runway in time, Air Canada should have promptly gone around, even without the controller telling them what to do. Radio discipline is extremely important as well. If one radio goes silence for any reason, there are other radios they can quickly switch to.”
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You know you're probably a duche when your Twitter handle/ID is "787PIC" :rolleyes:
 
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NovemberEcho said:
I like how the "retired airline pilot" commenting clearly didn't understand what happened because the SWA WAS clear of the runway, the tower just wasn't sure when they tried to send the ACA around.

Retired commercial airline pilot Ross Aimer said the incident left him shaking his head.

“Pilots must exercise extreme caution to make sure the runway is cleared of the previously landing traffic,” he said. “In this case because Southwest did not exit the runway in time, Air Canada should have promptly gone around, even without the controller telling them what to do. Radio discipline is extremely important as well. If one radio goes silence for any reason, there are other radios they can quickly switch to.”
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I've been told to go around when I clearly knew the guy would clear before I broke the threshold. I don't know what atc tolerance is (please tell me) but it's definitely more conservative than mine. I wonder if this guys radio problems where because of a similar frustration that resulted in one of our deadly attitudes?
 
bucksmith said:
I've been told to go around when I clearly knew the guy would clear before I broke the threshold. I don't know what atc tolerance is (please tell me) but it's definitely more conservative than mine. I wonder if this guys radio problems where because of a similar frustration that resulted in one of our deadly attitudes?
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I would tell you if I could but I've never worked in a tower so I have no idea what runway separation is needed. I just know what I need at the threshold.
 
bucksmith said:
I've been told to go around when I clearly knew the guy would clear before I broke the threshold. I don't know what atc tolerance is (please tell me) but it's definitely more conservative than mine. I wonder if this guys radio problems where because of a similar frustration that resulted in one of our deadly attitudes?
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Apparently if they're both category 3 aircraft (idk what that entails) all you need is 6000'
 
bucksmith said:
I've been told to go around when I clearly knew the guy would clear before I broke the threshold. I don't know what atc tolerance is (please tell me) but it's definitely more conservative than mine. I wonder if this guys radio problems where because of a similar frustration that resulted in one of our deadly attitudes?
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IMG_2784.PNG


bimmerphile said:
Apparently if they're both category 3 aircraft (idk what that entails) all you need is 6000'
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Cat 1 is 12,500lbs or less, single engine prop, and all helicopters.

Cat 2 is 12,500lbs or less, twin engine props,

Cat 3 is any other aircraft that's not Cat 1 or 2 (that's the actual word for word definition)
 
bucksmith said:
I've been told to go around when I clearly knew the guy would clear before I broke the threshold. I don't know what atc tolerance is (please tell me) but it's definitely more conservative than mine. I wonder if this guys radio problems where because of a similar frustration that resulted in one of our deadly attitudes?
Click to expand...

I've been on final before and told to expect a go around due to traffic exiting the runway downfield but not fully clear, then have been issued the go around at about 1.5 mile final which I acknowledged but continued for about a few seconds as the traffic cleared the exit. I then requested clearance to land again, remaining runway, and was given clearance to land, still managing to touchdown fine near the back end of the TDZ with a normal descent rate. So sometimes it works out, but ATC does have to be conservative and I can fully understand that. In my case here, I imagine ATC can't solicit if I want to land again after issuing me a go around, but I can request it and it appears they'll grant it if the traffic is clear....as the onus is on me to be able to safely make the landing, not on them in authorizing it.

Then again, from my background, landing while other aircraft are on the runway downfield is normal ops that I've been used to for too long.
 
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"That go-around looks a lot like slow flight..."
I had a blast at the tower party. Working day-in/day-out with those guys/girls was great.

...
I think my record is 9 landing at the same time (AIR ASSAULT!!!). Would have had 10, but they had a door pop open, and diverted to fix/shut.
 
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phill1174 said:
They’re starting to be like some of the foreign carriers in JFK. When you see them coming just get out the way.
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Lol one of the top SFO FAA folks stopped by for a visit at work and watched a certain Asian airline turn entering the ramp into a 7 transmission back and forth complete with stopping on the active taxiway twice then almost cutting off a Hawaiian A330 and ignoring several hold calls. Just another day. How do these guys cross the ocean with 300+ pax behind them and then act like student pilots between the 4 of them?
 
DE727UPS said:
Crossing the ocean is easy with CPDLC. You don't talk to anybody. It's easy for me to be sympathetic as I've operated in Asia and can't understand a damn thing they say on the radio.
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Much like being on a PAR approach in IMC night to a 150' ceiling, and the ROK final controller telling me I'm left of glideslope. :)
 
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