The Toll

[pullup]

My kids don't need money for a place to live? My kids don't need money for food? My kids don't need money for their extracurricular activities?
I'm not saying my kids need the money more than they need time with me. I'm basically trying to say if it comes to making 30K and being home every night, vs making 3 times that and working a regular airline schedule, I would pick the latter.

That's exactly what you said, it took me years to realize the exact opposite is true. Of course they need food and shelter, what they don't need is the latest Jordan's, three iPads, 7,000 channels of TV, and a cellphone at 6 years old as a replacement for your love, time, and attention. That leads to daddy issues.

There needs to be a balance, you can't throw money at your kids as a substitute for you being there and expect everything to be ok. Fortunately/unfortunately there is no substitute for physical time with your kids, and once that's gone it's gone.

I sincerely wish you good luck because they honestly grow up very very quick, just try to find a good balance and always make family your first priority because in the end that's all we really have.

 

[Roger Roger]

That's exactly what you said, it took me years to realize the exact opposite is true. Of course they need food and shelter, what they don't need is the latest Jordan's, three iPads, 7,000 channels of TV, and a cellphone at 6 years old as a replacement for your love, time, and attention. That leads to daddy issues.

There needs to be a balance, you can't throw money at your kids as a substitute for you being there and expect everything to be ok. Fortunately/unfortunately there is no substitute for physical time with your kids, and once that's gone it's gone.

I sincerely wish you good luck because they honestly grow up very very quick, just try to find a good balance and always make family your first priority because in the end that's all we really have.

This times a billion.

 

[rockman2343@aol.com]

Interesting that you tell your daughters about "balance" and stress how important it is. And yet, your OP indicates a failure in "balance". It is difficult, if not impossible, to teach a lesson to children through words alone. Your actions will be their lesson and dictate their future.


Um, yes you are...!




News flash: THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!!!
I think you might be missing the point of the replies here; I KNOW you've missed the point of mine! What would your KIDS pick? What would your WIFE pick if she had been given the choice?

P.S. There are a lot of families that stay together, are happier, and content that make a heck of a lot less than $30k!!

I didn't say they need money more than they need time with me. I said they need money more than they need time with me EVERY NIGHT.
I understand it's not about what I want. But my kids don't know what's best for them, so I'm not going to ask them what they'd pick. Of course they'd pick me home every night. But, they are to young to understand the opportunities we'd be giving up. This isn't about new Jordan's, fancy cars, or sneakers. It's about never having to live in the bad part of town, always having money for their activities, being able to write that check for college if they don't get enough scholarship money.

I can't believe you think that I'm doing this to satisfy some thrill for flying. It's about money, so I can create opportunity for my family. I'll fly a kite if it pays me more.

 

[pullup]

Of course they'd pick me home every night.

That right there is all you need to know.

 

[BigZ]

I can't believe you think that I'm doing this to satisfy some thrill for flying. It's about money, so I can create opportunity for my family. I'll fly a kite if it pays me more.

Man, you're so all sorts of wrong there.
Money's not only not everything, it's not even the bigger chunk of it.

Be happy with what you do, be content. You want your kids to be passionate about what they do or you gonna select the whatever happens to be the best paying job at the time they grow up and stick them there?
If the latter is the case, how did you end up flying?

 

[Beep]

That right there is all you need to know.

Of course they would want him home every night, that is what every kid would want, unless they hated their parent.
With this logic nobody should accept or continue employment if it keeps them away from home at night. It sounds like his schedule keeps him away from home more than I would personally care to be, but as he stated it's not permanent, maybe he's still talking with his wife about things?

Man, you're so all sorts of wrong there.
Money's not only not everything, it's not even the bigger chunk of it.

Be happy with what you do, be content. You want your kids to be passionate about what they do or you gonna select the whatever happens to be the best paying job at the time they grow up and stick them there?
If the latter is the case, how did you end up flying?

so, you're saying that he's just wrong about everything?

Rockman, I'm sorry things are going the way they are right now, and hopefully you are still communicating with your wife and kids. Hopefully you will all be able to work through this one way or another and find the acceptable balance for all involved for the future weather that means as a married couple and their kids, or a divorced couple and their kids.

 

[BigZ]

so, you're saying that he's just wrong about everything?

That post was in conjunction with whatever I wrote on the first page.

In a nutshell, first post was about finding a compromise between work and time with family, with a caveat that the spouse might not always see your compromise as such due to still sticking to flying i.e. doing something you enjoy.

Now if it is all about just the money for the OP, then that's a whole nother can of worms.

When the spouse goes into the "But the money! The career!" mode of operation, making all other things secondary, there's only so far you can go trying to facilitate and compromise before saying ef it. And yes, the said spouse does tend to end up shocked with how their efforts are not appreciated, but at the end of the day, it is that spouse's ability to communicate is what it all boils down to.

 

[Beep]

That post was in conjunction with whatever I wrote on the first page.

In a nutshell, first post was about finding a compromise between work and time with family, with a caveat that the spouse might not always see your compromise as such due to still sticking to flying i.e. doing something you enjoy.

Now if it is all about just the money for the OP, then that's a whole nother can of worms.

When the spouse goes into the "But the money! The career!" mode of operation, making all other things secondary, there's only so far you can go trying to facilitate and compromise before saying ef it. And yes, the said spouse does tend to end up shocked with how their efforts are not appreciated, but at the end of the day, it is that spouse's ability to communicate is what it all boils down to.

Ah, thanks... I wasn't taking your previous post into account!
Sorry about that.

 

[BigZ]

Ah, thanks... I wasn't taking your previous post into account!
Sorry about that.

All good, no worries

 

[rockman2343@aol.com]

Man, you're so all sorts of wrong there.
Money's not only not everything, it's not even the bigger chunk of it.

Be happy with what you do, be content. You want your kids to be passionate about what they do or you gonna select the whatever happens to be the best paying job at the time they grow up and stick them there?
If the latter is the case, how did you end up flying?

I love flying, and I am fortunate to have a job that I enjoy. My point is my primary reason for doing it right now is not the thrill of flying. It is the only career field where I am going to make this kind of money, with out re-tooling and changing careers.
I know money is not everything, but it does factor into the type of life I can give to my kids. Sure people can provide a good life for their kids on 25K a year. Given my entire situation, it would be incredibly difficult, and I want to do more for/with my kids than 25K will allow me to. I'm not trying to buy their love, I'm trying to get to point where I make great money, with a great schedule. My schedule for the past 7 months was supposed to be temporary, ending at the end of summer.
Now that I don't have to pay for any of her stuff, I am back on a normal schedule, and am doing a lot with my kids on my time off.

 

[rockman2343@aol.com]

Of course they would want him home every night, that is what every kid would want, unless they hated their parent.
With this logic nobody should accept or continue employment if it keeps them away from home at night. It sounds like his schedule keeps him away from home more than I would personally care to be, but as he stated it's not permanent, maybe he's still talking with his wife about things?


so, you're saying that he's just wrong about everything?

Rockman, I'm sorry things are going the way they are right now, and hopefully you are still communicating with your wife and kids. Hopefully you will all be able to work through this one way or another and find the acceptable balance for all involved for the future weather that means as a married couple and their kids, or a divorced couple and their kids.

Thanks Beep. We're done as a couple but have finally reached the point where we can talk civilly about the kids. It still stings but for my part, I'm doing what I can to make this first year of the kids new lives still be a great one.

 

[milleR]

Thanks Beep. We're done as a couple but have finally reached the point where we can talk civilly about the kids. It still stings but for my part, I'm doing what I can to make this first year of the kids new lives still be a great one.

Good luck man, a bunch of us have been there. My only piece of advice would be that no matter how unlikely it seems at the moment, make sure you angle everything you can in the settlement and parenting agreement towards you being in a new relationship. My wife and I are both divorced with kids and I can't begin to describe how difficult working around the "f*** it, I'm out" compromises we made during our divorces can be. Just be firmly thinking about your future and not only about getting the process over with through the whole thing.

 

[dustoff17]

I didn't say they need money more than they need time with me. I said they need money more than they need time with me EVERY NIGHT.
I understand it's not about what I want. But my kids don't know what's best for them, so I'm not going to ask them what they'd pick. Of course they'd pick me home every night. But, they are to young to understand the opportunities we'd be giving up. This isn't about new Jordan's, fancy cars, or sneakers. It's about never having to live in the bad part of town, always having money for their activities, being able to write that check for college if they don't get enough scholarship money.

I can't believe you think that I'm doing this to satisfy some thrill for flying. It's about money, so I can create opportunity for my family. I'll fly a kite if it pays me more.

Yeah, yeah, yeah........
I seriously think you're trying to convince yourself more than the rest of us. Deep down inside you have to know that your decision was not the best for you, your kids, or your family. You might not be able to go back in time but you can control your actions moving forward. Your kids need you in their lives; the divorce has made that even more difficult and your ego/stubbornness will dig an even deeper hole.

This is NOT an attack. This Thread serves as an excellent example of a person seeking sympathy and not getting the expected return. Seriously, there have been several posts here that include great advice and assessment of your situation. The troubles in your marriage didn't reveal to you your errors, the divorce didn't, and our assessments haven't either. This might be the saddest part of this entire scenario.

I wish the best for your you, your ex and, especially, your kids....

(EDIT to correct grammar)

 

[rockman2343@aol.com]

Yeah, yeah, yeah........
I seriously think you're trying to convince yourself more than the rest of us. Deep down inside you have to know that your decision was not the best for you, your kids, or your family. You might not be able to go back in time but you can control your actions moving forward. Your kids need you in their lives; the divorce has made that even more difficult and your ego/stubbornness will dig an even deeper hole.

This is NOT an attack. This Thread serves as an excellent example of a person seeking sympathy and not getting the expected return. Seriously, there have been several posts here that include great advice and assessment of your situation. The troubles in your marriage didn't reveal to you your errors, the divorce didn't, and our assessments haven't either. This might be the saddest part of this entire scenario.

I wish the best for your you, your ex and, especially, your kids....

(EDIT to correct grammar)

Nah it wasn't sympathy I was looking for, rather just to talk while I was going through a hard time. I thought that was part of what this section of the website was about. I also thought maybe there might be other pilots that have experience similar situations. A few have been helpful on this thread.

You seem hell bent on depicting me as some selfish egotistic prick who doesn't want to be in his kids lives and you are wrong. Every decision I've made was made because at the time that's what I thought was best for my family. After weeks of self reflection, talks with friends, and recently, some of the advice on here, I guarantee you I know what errors I made. If you go back and read my original post I think the first part of was basically saying "yeah, I worked too much and I think it cost me my family." I ended it with call home, basically because one of my mistakes was I think I could have called more. No where do I say you have to choose between family and being a pilot. I just stated that IF I had to choose, it would be family.

I'm glad you were able to take a 50K cut in pay to be with your family. I was not in a position to do that. I am taking an 18 to 30K paycut just so I can live in the same state as my kids and see them more than I have in the past 7 months.

I can take harsh constructive criticism, that's not the issue here. I don't know what your issue is with me and I don't care. Your statements and overall attitude have been the least helpful. Well intentions or not (and I'm inclined to believe or not), feel free not to contribute anymore to this thread.

 

[rockman2343@aol.com]

Good luck man, a bunch of us have been there. My only piece of advice would be that no matter how unlikely it seems at the moment, make sure you angle everything you can in the settlement and parenting agreement towards you being in a new relationship. My wife and I are both divorced with kids and I can't begin to describe how difficult working around the "f*** it, I'm out" compromises we made during our divorces can be. Just be firmly thinking about your future and not only about getting the process over with through the whole thing.

Thank you, sound advice. I certainly am thinking about the future as her and I draft out custody/child support agreement.

 

[BigZ]

I'm sure everyone in here meant well and spoke from experience of dealing with similar issues.
Dustoff's point was that you might have been off the track on what your family needed at the time and he was suggesting you revisit the situation for salvagability.
My most recent point was that dealing with a spouse in the "Career! Money!" mode can be a real pain in the ass, speaking from personal experience too. With mine, however, we have had solid communication practices for many years, and still it was tough and not out of the boons completely.
Having said all that, all the advise in here is solid and legit, from various viewpoints and with various backgrounds, but no one outside of a particular couple can ever know how that couple ticks on the inside.

 

[Malko]

Work vs. marriage and family. Tough choice. I'd like to think that we're all well-rounded, or rather that we should be. I would think that if I was in a good marriage, but stuck in a dead end job, staring up at the sky. Unable to fulfill my life's passion. Anger, regret, depression, jealousy would begin to set in. And as a result, my relationship/marriage might suffer. Likewise, if I'm at a good job, but the job is my life, because I don't have a successful interpersonal relationship(s) outside of work, and I'm coming home to an empty house and five cats, my morale at work might also suffer.

Interdependence, is where its at. I think that we need both in our lives, career & family in order to be happy. Not one more than the other. At least I know that I do.

As to the work/life deal, I don't live to work, I work to live..... I ended up in the IT world and 'fell into' a niche market and through networking made some choices with great timing. There are days where work sucks and I wonder if i am in the right place.... Then I think about one in college and one soon to be in college. The job has afforded the opportunities that my kids have.....

There are some I work with that have some great satisfaction of 'public service' in what we do. Not so much for me. That's where the 'work to live' comes in for me....

 

[Malko]

My kids don't need money for a place to live? My kids don't need money for food? My kids don't need money for their extracurricular activities?
I'm not saying my kids need the money more than they need time with me. I'm basically trying to say if it comes to making 30K and being home every night, vs making 3 times that and working a regular airline schedule, I would pick the latter.

Money isn't everything, but a lack of it sure makes things difficult no doubt.

 

[jskibo]

As to the work/life deal, I don't live to work, I work to live..... I ended up in the IT world and 'fell into' a niche market and through networking made some choices with great timing. There are days where work sucks and I wonder if i am in the right place.... Then I think about one in college and one soon to be in college. The job has afforded the opportunities that my kids have.....

There are some I work with that have some great satisfaction of 'public service' in what we do. Not so much for me. That's where the 'work to live' comes in for me....

Not to mention you get to live in Minnesota, which is like Barrow, Alaska sans Eskimos

 

[dustoff17]

Clearly I came across as a sanctimonious jerk. My wife is sure that I have a filter in my head that is "supposed" to serve as a gate between what needs to be stated and what should be stated. I often don’t realize when the filter is in bypass mode. Sometimes I come across like a roll of 60 grit Charmin and for that I apologize.

I’m not going to rehash this entire thread but the main thrust of my posts have been that you DO recognize your error but that you are choosing to continue along the same line. It is always difficult to get the truth (at least I know it is for me), however, the truth is that you HAVE acted in a selfish, egotistical manner with regards to THIS situation. But you are not alone in this; we (as husbands and fathers) often put our desire to be a financial success above everything else. We want to be able to discuss our accomplishments in a career with a puffed up chest and a big smile on our faces. We put way too much emphasis on what we do, rather than who we are. It’s a fact of society that our jobs will enter into a conversation within mere seconds of meeting someone for the first time. We are driven by ego; you’re no exception.

There have been several quotes from your posts that are very revealing in that you seem to waver with regards to the money you WANT to make and the result of that desire. You contradicted yourself a few times and that added to the discussion.

Just to clear one thing up for you: I was not “in a position to take a $50k pay cut”. When I resigned from that position, I had NO job and didn’t have one in mind. It was not an easy decision for me or my family to make (I have 3 kids, the oldest was 7; youngest 3). There is a fine line between making a move in order to spend time with family and “WTH” did I just do? I’m pretty sure I used that line as a jump rope because I had no clue how I was going to pay our bills let alone college. As I was loading the moving truck, I was making phone calls trying to figure out where I was going to drive it. I DID know that no matter what I did, we would do it as a family. I also knew that whatever I did for a job was more important than what I had in mind as a career. I knew that McDonald’s is always hiring and I was willing to do that to feed the family and see my kids grow up.

@BigZ is dead on as far as his read of me and my posts. I believe that if the job is the real reason for your divorce and you are making the necessary changes (you stated you’re changing your schedule- and income), you might be able to keep your family intact. And unless your children are 2 years or younger, they know enough about what is going on to be able to express their desire. And who cares if they can’t see all the way to the monetary requirements of a PhD? They know the now, this is their lives.

I am absolutely not a better person, father, husband, pilot, man, etc than anyone else here. I’m stating facts as I read them. I add to what I read from my own personal and professional experience and post a reply. Please reread my posts, if you take anything as a personal attack rather than helpful advice and observations, it’s called conviction.


I seriously wish the best for you.