ORD & MDW Aviation Police Officers not allowed to Carry guns ??!!

NovemberEcho said:
Strongest gun laws don't mean anything when you can just drive an hour or two and be away from them. Localized gun control does nothing, it has to be a national uniform (minimum) standard to work. It's such an obvious point I don't understand why people bother bringing up the "Chicago has such strict gun laws how did this happen" argument
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Because you just told people that in order to commit a felony people have to do something which is also a felony. In fact the Governor of Illinois is passing new laws to make that felony even more harsh a punishment.

Short of wholesale prohibition on firearms and a mass confiscation the goal of somehow "cutting off the flow" is moot. Same with how the ATF spends virtually no effort trying to crush FFLs that get caught actually selling those guns knowing where they are going.

So unless you are prepared to go through the process of a constitutional amendment (and nobody is) better focus on all the other issues first.


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I'm not advocating for or against anything. But it's a rather simplistic fact that local gun control laws are useless so long as they are easily beaten with a 2 hour drive. My point was a rebuke towards all the "Chicago has the stricter gun laws and look how that worked for them" bs argument.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Strongest gun laws don't mean anything when you can just drive an hour or two and be away from them. Localized gun control does nothing, it has to be a national uniform (minimum) standard to work. It's such an obvious point I don't understand why people bother bringing up the "Chicago has such strict gun laws how did this happen" argument
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Because the only people barred from carry by such laws are those who abide by the law, leaving felons to continue being felons while disarming the law abiding. Mexico has some of the toughest restrictions in the world . . . nation wide. Yet they also have one of the worst gun violence rates in the world. Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world, and all military-age males are required to have their fully automatic assault rifles with ammo stored at home, yet Switzerland has one of the lowest gun violence rates. I should know. My Swiss father-in-law had his old army rifle in his house to the day he died . . . with a canister of ammunition. Not only that, after military service has expired, Swiss men can opt to have their assault weapon modified to semi-automatic and keep it, and for a small fee they can also keep their sidearm.

And then there's the U.K. Yep, not many guns, but violent crime is so bad that now there is a movement to outlaw kitchen knives. Apparently, gun bans didn't address the core problem. A knife ban won't either, but that slope is pretty slippery. A decade from now it'll be a ban on golf clubs and cricket bats. After that it'll be that most English of fashion accessories the brolly. And they still will not have addressed the core problem — behavior.
 
NovemberEcho said:
I'm not advocating for or against anything. But it's a rather simplistic fact that local gun control laws are useless so long as they are easily beaten with a 2 hour drive. My point was a rebuke towards all the "Chicago has the stricter gun laws and look how that worked for them" bs argument.
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And it's doing nothing.

Look there is nothing simple about cross state lines straw purchases. It's a felony. A very serious one both at the federal and state levels.

The problem with the "our guns laws work it's you people's fault" argument is that it's critical of other states not committing crimes while ignoring perpetrators and more importantly victims of actual crimes.

It's essentially telling the people shot/mugged/murdered/etc every year by guns "we hear you but it's not our fault we passed a law... Go yell at Wisconsin." They did nothing effective but absolve themselves of sin in their own eyes.


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modernicarus said:
Meh. They'll be fine. They're in a city with probably the strongest gun laws in the country.
That's why there's rarely ever a shooting in Chicago. Nothing to worry about.
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For a moment I didn't read your comments with the right inflection. The "sarcasm" symbol was missing!

500 murders already this year. Most by guns. Yikes!
 
NovemberEcho said:
Strongest gun laws don't mean anything when you can just drive an hour or two and be away from them. Localized gun control does nothing, it has to be a national uniform (minimum) standard to work. It's such an obvious point I don't understand why people bother bringing up the "Chicago has such strict gun laws how did this happen" argument
Click to expand...

Short of a federal ban on all guns, I'm not sure how you expect to accomplish that. There's no real way to prevent straw purchases and the law is irrelevant to someone purchasing it on the black market to begin with. Obviously, you're not able to legally purchase a gun outside of the state you're a citizen of, by federal law.

I'm a gun owner here in Arizona where everyone carries guns, but I would be greatly in favor of tighter controls on private party purchases. I was apart of a few gun groups on Facespace and saw some stuff that was sketchy as hell from people that probably weren't legally able to own firearms. If were a criminal wishing to engage in some nefarious activities, that's how I would purchase a weapon. Much easier than any other avenue. But again, I'm not sure how you police that other than illegalizing private party transactions entirely. Which is the problem with gun control in the first place, it needs to be all or nothing to be effective. And that's never going to happen.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
Short of a federal ban on all guns, I'm not sure how you expect to accomplish that. There's no real way to prevent straw purchases and the law is irrelevant to someone purchasing it on the black market to begin with. Obviously, you're not able to legally purchase a gun outside of the state you're a citizen of, by federal law.

I'm a gun owner here in Arizona where everyone carries guns, but I would be greatly in favor of tighter controls on private party purchases. I was apart of a few gun groups on Facespace and saw some stuff that was sketchy as hell from people that probably weren't legally able to own firearms. If were a criminal wishing to engage in some nefarious activities, that's how I would purchase a weapon. Much easier than any other avenue. But again, I'm not sure how you police that other than illegalizing private party transactions entirely. Which is the problem with gun control in the first place, it needs to be all or nothing to be effective. And that's never going to happen.
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You certainly can buy a firearm outside of your state of residence. My friend from Nj bought a pistol in NY just a few weeks ago
 
NovemberEcho said:
You certainly can buy a firearm outside of your state of residence. My friend from Nj bought a pistol in NY just a few weeks ago
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Yes ....

Provided you purchase through an FFL or private sale transferred to an FFL, which is then transferred to the state of resident to another FFL, where after completing a Form 4733 background check and paying a transfer fee you can take possession of the firearm (additional requirements depending on state such as Firearms ID cards, waiting periods, etc). Long guns are a little bit easier, but let's face it they aren't what people are killing each other in the inner city illegally with.

His point may have been broad, but so was yours. It's like when people say "you can buy guns on the Internet" well yeah you can, but it's not exactly Amazon.


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Drugs are illegal in this country but last I checked but you can buy just about any illegal substance on the streets. Aside from a national gun buy-back program in conjunction with a secured border, you aren't going to achieve much through legislation. Anything short of that will drive up the cost of illegal gun sales. This isn't one of those issues with a clear answer.
 
Vector said:
Drugs are illegal in this country but last I checked but you can buy just about any illegal substance on the streets. Aside from a national gun buy-back program in conjunction with a secured border, you aren't going to achieve much through legislation. Anything short of that will drive up the cost of illegal gun sales. This isn't one of those issues with a clear answer.
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I wish we had more people willing to look at it this way.

Honestly I think guns are stupid and wish we could get rid of all of them. But like some of the hardcore right's dreams of deporting all the illegal immigrants that simply isn't realistic. But at the same time doing nothing isn't working either. Gun violence is a multifaceted issue that won't be solved by going extremely to either side, or only focusing on the guns themselves.
 
NovemberEcho said:
You certainly can buy a firearm outside of your state of residence. My friend from Nj bought a pistol in NY just a few weeks ago
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I should have been a bit more specific, it's only possible through the method described by lawman, which isn't time nor cost effective and certainly not something that someone is going to do if they plan on using the gun for illegal activities. It's certainly not as simple as living in Chicago and crossing the border into Indiana or Wisconsin and picking up a gun at a snap of the finger.

Your friend may have been purchasing one through a private party and not an FFL licensed gunshop, which circles back to the original point I made about those sales not being regulated.

Lawman said:
His point may have been broad, but so was yours. It's like when people say "you can buy guns on the Internet" well yeah you can, but it's not exactly Amazon.
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Precisely. Buying a gun on the internet functionally isn't any different than buying it from a gun shop in your homestate. You're still going to have it shipped to your local FFL and the background check ran(IIRC, some states don't require the backround check) before you can take ownership of it.

So, yeah, I can buy a gun from Bud's Guns on the east coast, but it's still going to have go through my local FFL here in AZ. The whole point is to ensure you're following the laws of the state you reside in and not the state you're purchasing it in.
 
NovemberEcho said:
You certainly can buy a firearm outside of your state of residence. My friend from Nj bought a pistol in NY just a few weeks ago
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Yes, you can purchase a gun in another state. I've done so twice. But you may not legally take direct possession of that firearm. It must be sent to an FFL in your state of residence, and the required BATFE paperwork must be filled out at the FFL to complete the transfer. If your friend did not follow this requirement, then he made an illegal purchase.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
Short of a federal ban on all guns, I'm not sure how you expect to accomplish that. There's no real way to prevent straw purchases and the law is irrelevant to someone purchasing it on the black market to begin with. Obviously, you're not able to legally purchase a gun outside of the state you're a citizen of, by federal law.

I'm a gun owner here in Arizona where everyone carries guns, but I would be greatly in favor of tighter controls on private party purchases. I was apart of a few gun groups on Facespace and saw some stuff that was sketchy as hell from people that probably weren't legally able to own firearms. If were a criminal wishing to engage in some nefarious activities, that's how I would purchase a weapon. Much easier than any other avenue. But again, I'm not sure how you police that other than illegalizing private party transactions entirely. Which is the problem with gun control in the first place, it needs to be all or nothing to be effective. And that's never going to happen.
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You self police it. With rights comes responsibility. If you didn't turn these guys in knowing they were doing illegal chit, you're part of the problem honestly.

If you want to keep your guns, you have to (for lack of a better way to put it) snitch on those who don't respect gun laws. I hate being a snitch. But I hate having my rights taken away because someone else won't follow the law more.
 
NovemberEcho said:
I'm not advocating for or against anything. But it's a rather simplistic fact that local gun control laws are useless so long as they are easily beaten with a 2 hour drive. My point was a rebuke towards all the "Chicago has the stricter gun laws and look how that worked for them" bs argument.
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Mass economic desparity + high availability of firearms = mass firearm death. It really seems pretty simple to me and is basically true the world over, but somehow the more guns is safer and the more guns are bad crowd can't agree on this simple principle.
 
mshunter said:
You self police it. With rights comes responsibility. If you didn't turn these guys in knowing they were doing illegal chit, you're part of the problem honestly.

If you want to keep your guns, you have to (for lack of a better way to put it) snitch on those who don't respect gun laws. I hate being a snitch. But I hate having my rights taken away because someone else won't follow the law more.
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I'm not going to turn someone end without being fairly confident that they were doing something illegal. As much fun as it is the generalize and stereotype people based off where they live, what they look like, and what sort of janky ass firearm they were trying to sell, I couldn't in good conscience do that.

It's a moot point now, anyway. Facebook no longer allows firearms sales.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Strongest gun laws don't mean anything when you can just drive an hour or two and be away from them. Localized gun control does nothing, it has to be a national uniform (minimum) standard to work. It's such an obvious point I don't understand why people bother bringing up the "Chicago has such strict gun laws how did this happen" argument
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You can replace guns in this argument with booze, drugs; or even fireworks (damn you South Carolina!).

Nationwide laws regarding alcohol did nothing but increase the violence and reward those people willing to commit violence by making them rich.

"Buh, buh, you can make booze at home!". True enough, but it requires a bit of skill to make it drinkable. Anyone within a reasonable level of machine skills can make a gun. Or heck, you can print the parts on your 3D printer.

Or are we going to make those illegal along with lathes?

Richman
 
A couple years back I saw the Federales at Monterrey (MMMY) manning a bed-mounted machine gun in a pickup truck. I really wanted to take a pic but thought it best not to. Last year at HKG I saw some police with impressive submachine guns passing on the escalator. I can't imagine the threat level at HKG being that high but what do I know.
 
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