Quick question from a aspiring pilot.

Caliyorkhaas

Caliyorkhaas

New Member
Hey all,

Finishing up my active duty military service in a few months, and was looking for some input on what the best road would be to take to become an airline pilot.
Doing it for the love of aviation and not at all for the money.
I haven't touched my GI bill and I just turned 23 years old.
I unfortunately don't much more then a few credits at ERAU to show for college. :/

Thank you very much for your time!
-Josh
 
Welcome, and thanks for your service! I used my GI Bill for my Instrument / Commercial stuff which worked out well. Do you have any flight experience yet? What most will recommend if not is to do an introductory flight to make sure you're ok in light aircraft, because you'll be spending a lot of time in them. Then get your medical to make sure you don't have any hidden issues that may prevent getting a gig with an airline. I would urge you to get a degree in something non-aviation related in case you DO develop a disqualifying medical condition down the road and need a backup plan. Read a lot here and get involved! JC works when everyone participates.
 
ozziecat35 said:
What most will recommend if not is to do an introductory flight to make sure you're ok in light aircraft, because you'll be spending a lot of time in them.
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Thank you a ton for the reply! Ive spent a few (under 20) logged hrs in a Piper Warrior back before I joined the military and loved every second of it! Unfortunately I couldn't fund a career in aviation at that time so I took the military route. Would a Degree at a non aviation school be best and try to fund the flight school somewhere else? GI bill for the degree and all my aviation certs on my own?
 
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It's really up to you, but imagine you use your GI Bill to go to ERAU / UND / etc, and major in some flavor of "Aviation Flight Science." That's all well and good right now, but in 10 years or whenever the next inevitable economic downturn happens and you get furloughed, how are you planning on paying the bills because all you know how to do is fly airplanes? Having other non aviation realated skills like website design or whatever gets your nether regions fuzzy to make yourself gainfully employed when the music stops and you're left without a chair isn't the worst idea in the world.
 
While I understand what others are saying about getting a non-aviation degree, going through a 4-year aviation degree program that includes a flight program is probably the best route to get the Post 9/11 GI Bill to pay for everything. While I understand that they've cracked down a bit on people getting a lot of extra flight time, last time I checked, the GI-Bill will pay for your flight costs in their entirety up to the number of hours that is estimated in your syllabus.

The only way you're going to get both a degree as well as your flight costs paid for by the GI Bill as far as I know, is to take an aviation degree program at someplace like UND or Embry Riddle. I'm sure there are other places, but those two come to mind.

I had the old Chapter 30 GI Bill and used it for all my flight training, but the Post 9/11 GI Bill is a much better deal. My understanding is that it pays all your tuition, books, all flight costs required for your degree program, and if you are taking 1/2 time or better, you will even get BAH!

As far as getting a degree in another field, I can see the benefits in that, but I'm not sure how you could do that AND flight training, as your flight costs wouldn't be covered since they aren't required for your degree program. You may be able to do one or the other, but with an aviation degree program, you get BOTH. AND, you also will be able to take advantage of the reduced number of hours to obtain an Airline Transport Pilot certificate, which will be required to fly for an airline. The hour requirements would be 1500 without an aviation degree program, but may be as low as 1000 if you go through an approved aviation degree program.

Hope this helps!
 
Thank you all very much for your input!

Is being an CFI the only way to get up to the FAA minimums? and do you need 1k+ to fly turbo props? whats a realistic number on that airlines are hiring these days as far as hours, or could you possibly be picked up at 1000 TT?
 
Caliyorkhaas said:
Thank you all very much for your input!

Is being an CFI the only way to get up to the FAA minimums? and do you need 1k+ to fly turbo props? whats a realistic number on that airlines are hiring these days as far as hours, or could you possibly be picked up at 1000 TT?
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No. Minimum is 1500 unless you get a college degree which it can be reduced to 1000. Airlines will hire you at bare minimum as they're desperate.

I'd suggest college and looking at the aviation degree. With the GI Bill you'll save so much and the funding for flight training is included in your tuition, so you could save astronomically there. I did a college degree and it worked out great for me as the interest rates on my loans are way lower than a private loan. My scholarships and grants also helped pay for my flight training and I loved going to class each and every day. Why get a degree in something you don't want to study? If you choose that route you can qualify for the R-ATP so it does have some incentive. Just food for thought. Also, ERAU is pretty much the most expensive aviation college...make sure you look at other options. Lots of amazing programs out there that nobody really pays attention too.

Jordan93 said:
Stay out of debt, get a Bachelor's degree, and have fun!
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While I agree to stay out of debt, it's pretty hard to start flight training and get a degree with no debt unless you come from wealth. I have a lot of loans but I get to do what I love everyday. Never understood the whole "I'm dropping out of aviation because I refuse to get student loans" philosophy...

But everyone is different and some can't stand the fact about getting debt and then going off to make $35k. As far as whether go become a CFI or other ways to build time, I'd take this one step at a time. When that time comes then see where you are in your life and what options you have but definitely put all your options on the table.

Go Avs ;)
 
If you want to stay in California and not pay exorbitant ERAU tuition, San Jose State has an aviation department and airplanes based at Reid-Hillview.

You'll be eligible for in-state tuition.

Fix
 
Caliyorkhaas said:
Thank you all very much for your input!

Is being an CFI the only way to get up to the FAA minimums? and do you need 1k+ to fly turbo props? whats a realistic number on that airlines are hiring these days as far as hours, or could you possibly be picked up at 1000 TT?
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As said above, 1500 is minimum unless you have an aviation degree then it's 1000 or 1250 I believe for either BS or AS.

CFI isn't the only way to build time, I'm building my time by doing aerial survey, as I know myself and my demeanor, I'm not built to be a CFI, different strokes / etc. Turbo props are dependant. I got my first King Air gig (right seat) around 700 hours, so it just depends.
 
Caliyorkhaas said:
Thank you all very much for your input!

Is being an CFI the only way to get up to the FAA minimums? and do you need 1k+ to fly turbo props? whats a realistic number on that airlines are hiring these days as far as hours, or could you possibly be picked up at 1000 TT?
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It's not the only way, as others have posted, but your options are somewhat limited until you reach the minimums for the airlines. If you go through an aviation degree program, you'll probably need to get at least a CFI certificate, if not CFII as well. You'll probably be able to find work as an instructor at your university on the side as soon as the ink is dry on your temporary CFI certificate which would allow you to build more time while you are still finishing up your degree. Instructing is a very good way to build time, and it will teach you a lot more about flying than you could imagine. You'll learn to spot all of the common mistakes that people make while flying airplanes, and that will help you become a better pilot.

You'll probably have 300ish hours at the conclusion of the flight training, so you'll definitely need to build some time to bridge the gap. There are a number of other options, all of which are probably more difficult to find than a CFI gig, and many of which would require relocation. There are a lot of options to build time up in Alaska if you wanted to look there. I believe you could fly in the right seat as a second pilot in certain operations, I know there are some options flying Cessna Caravans that way with low time requirements, and those are turbine, although single engine. VFR only part 135 cargo operations could be done with 500 hours, I know a couple of people that have done that up in Alaska flying Cessna 172s and 206s.

Then there's banner towing, pipeline/powerline patrol, survey and probably a number of other gigs flying little airplanes to help you build time.
 
I found a local college that accepts post 9/11 for an AAS in flight technology that takes you through private, commercial, instrument and CFI. Helicopters or fixed wing. I picked helo's because there was a waiting list on FW, but since it's a 2 year program I could use the last 2 years worth of GI bill on getting all my FW stuff as well. My plan to get to the big leagues is just get all my certs.. start CFI-ing.. and when I hit 1k-1.5k hours apply for the first company that will fly me the most. Good luck!
 
Find an in-state university so you can get in-state tuition in close proximity to a small-medium sized airport with flight instruction. Preferably you want an airport that isn't so busy you can't do touch and go's or else you will have to fly to another airport just to do pattern work for your initial training. An airport within a 15-20 minute drive from your college would be ideal. Major in something useful - STEM would be a good choice. I went the collegiate aviation route (part 141) and I regret it - way too structured, can't pick your own instructor (a big negative IMO), can only do cross countries on certain days and at certain times, overly conservative restrictions on weather along the route of flight for the cross countries, and the curriculum is not very flexible to allow for additional training on weak areas. You pretty much have a set flight syllabus and if you need to deviate from that to train on weak areas it's only additional $$.

My experience at a local airport flight school (part 61) was far better than the part 141 and my instructors were all great. Just let your instructor know you want to do this for a living and they will make sure you know everything cold. You also have the freedom to fly wherever you want on your cross countries which is a lot of fun. You also save a lot of money going this route over collegiate aviation. Just be sure to fly at least twice a week so you don't have to re-learn things which can increase the cost of training. If you are on the west coast, there's plenty of good options for flight training locally in CA or AZ.
 
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Pilotsjs89 said:
Find an in-state university so you can get in-state tuition in close proximity to a small-medium sized airport with flight instruction. Preferably you want an airport that isn't so busy you can't do touch and go's or else you will have to fly to another airport just to do pattern work for your initial training. An airport within a 15-20 minute drive from your college would be ideal. Major in something useful - STEM or IT would be a few good choices. I went the collegiate aviation route and I regret it - way too structured, can't pick your own instructor (a big negative IMO), can only do cross countries on certain days and at certain times, overly conservative restrictions on weather along the route of flight for the cross countries, and the curriculum is not very flexible to allow for additional training on weak areas. You pretty much have a set flight syllabus and if you need to deviate from that to train on weak areas it's only additional $$.

My experience at a local airport flight school was far better than in collegiate aviation and my instructors were all great. Just let your instructor know you want to do this for a living and they will make sure you know everything cold. You also have the freedom to fly wherever you want on your cross countries which is a lot of fun. You also save a lot of money going this route over collegiate aviation. Just be sure to fly at least twice a week so you don't have to re-learn things which can increase the cost of training. If you are on the west coast, there's plenty of good options for flight training locally in CA or AZ.
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You're talking about the differences between 141 and 61 programs, right?

I had an interesting experience with my instrument rating - the school was primarily 141, but I did mine 61. To make things easier, my instructor followed the 141 syllabus with me, did the grades and stage checks, but we flexed things where we could for 61, so I got to pick the destinations for the XCs and stuff like that.

Seems like collegiate aviation - and any GI Bill stuff - has to be 141, doesn't it?
 
killbilly said:
You're talking about the differences between 141 and 61 programs, right?

I had an interesting experience with my instrument rating - the school was primarily 141, but I did mine 61. To make things easier, my instructor followed the 141 syllabus with me, did the grades and stage checks, but we flexed things where we could for 61, so I got to pick the destinations for the XCs and stuff like that.

Seems like collegiate aviation - and any GI Bill stuff - has to be 141, doesn't it?
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I'm not familiar with the GI Bill - but obviously he would want to maximize the use of the benefit. If he has to pay additional out of pocket every semester by going to a 141 then he's going to have to weigh that extra expenditure against the cost of part 61 and college separately. If everything is included under the GI Bill at a 141 school then he should probably just go that route.

I do strongly prefer part 61 from my experience though. I feel the more structured it gets it kind of takes the fun out of training and makes it less personal. There's plenty of structure the further you go up the chain in this career might as well have some freedom with the first 300 hours.
 
Pilotsjs89 said:
I'm not familiar with the GI Bill - but obviously he would want to maximize the use of the benefit. If he has to pay additional out of pocket every semester by going to a 141 then he's going to have to weigh that extra expenditure against the cost of part 61 and college separately. If everything is included under the GI Bill at a 141 school then he should probably just go that route.

I do strongly prefer part 61 from my experience though. I feel the more structured it gets it kind of takes the fun out of training and makes it less personal. There's plenty of structure the further you go up the chain in this career might as well have some freedom with the first 300 hours.
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I don't disagree with you - the financial concerns are significant. I've heard of people doing the PPL as part 61, and doing the rest of the ratings as part 141 - I think a lot of places lump the instrument and commercial together in 141 schools, but you'd have to ask someone who knows that better than I do.
 
killbilly said:
I don't disagree with you - the financial concerns are significant. I've heard of people doing the PPL as part 61, and doing the rest of the ratings as part 141 - I think a lot of places lump the instrument and commercial together in 141 schools, but you'd have to ask someone who knows that better than I do.
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I think it's because a lot of times people will come in with a PPL from their high school years and a 141 school will give you credit for it. At my school I think it required special approval to bypass the instrument curriculum if you came in with an instrument rating. I got the impression it was frowned upon to enroll in a part 141 with any more experience than a PPL.
 
Pilotsjs89 said:
I'm not familiar with the GI Bill - but obviously he would want to maximize the use of the benefit. If he has to pay additional out of pocket every semester by going to a 141 then he's going to have to weigh that extra expenditure against the cost of part 61 and college separately. If everything is included under the GI Bill at a 141 school then he should probably just go that route.

I do strongly prefer part 61 from my experience though. I feel the more structured it gets it kind of takes the fun out of training and makes it less personal. There's plenty of structure the further you go up the chain in this career might as well have some freedom with the first 300 hours.
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While I agree that part 61 at a local airport is a better learning environment I personally couldn't go that route. The GI Bill has two main methods of paying for flight instruction.

Option 1) You find a VA approved flight school at an airport, part 141 or 61, you pay out of pocket, and at the end of the year the VA will reimburse you for up to 10k or so of the costs. This is great if you have the capital and don't want a degree. There's another catch: they will not under any circumstances cover your PPL.

Option 2) there is no cap on public university tuition that will be covered by the VA as long as you are pursuing a degree, on top of that they pay you a stipend every month to help out so you can focus more on school.. This varies by location but is about $1200/month where I'm living. Schools have tapped into this by creating "flight technology" degrees and including all instruction, plane rental, fuel, etc costs into tuition. So often times you'll see 2 and 4 year programs at universities that give you a AAS or BS/BA in aviation science or something that takes you through private all the way up through ATP prep. They are very expensive programs but are taken mostly by veterans who aren't paying for it anyway.... My 2 year career helicopter pilot program and associates degree is $85k-$95k when all is said and done.

If I had the money I would go to college for something more academic like computer science or engineering and just pay for my part 61 training out of pocket and wait until the end of every year to get some of that back. Because your right; part 141 is extremely structured and frustrating at times with how little control I actually have over when I fly, who my instructor is, CCX's, etc. However, being married with 4 kids that's not an option for me right now. Sooooo for the majority of vets coming out of the service, collegiate aviation is the better option financially because not only does it pay 100% no strings attached, it pays you while your enrolled.


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