Delta to Trim Narita Hub

Smart.

There's really no money between the US and Asia...

:sarcasm:
There may be but if you read the article you'll find the ME3 and Asian carriers have flooded the market with seats and depressed yields.

Narita was a hub and without connections it wasn't worth keeping around. All the US airlines wanted to fly to Haneda but until this year no one (I believe) has even been able to, at least with a normalized arrival time. With more Haneda slots opening up Delta is going direct there instead and shutting down their Narita hub.
 
Looks like Delta is following the lead of another US Airline in trimming their Narita Operation (although that airline is doing more point to point flying).......

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/delta-to-trim-narita-hub/


Delta has changed a lot of their flights to point to point as well. They do most of them through SEA. Anderson got into a pissing match with the Japanese over the Haneda slots, I believe, and altered DAL's Japan/Asia strategy as a result. PVG is becoming a connecting point for SkyTeam because of their tie up with China Eastern. I think getting into bed with the Chinese is a very bad move. They can never be trusted; China Eastern's product and service is crap compared to any world standard; and the connection system in PVG is a joke compared to NRT.

Personally I think UAL's use of the 787 for routes to Asia is a smart strategy. I've already started using UAL more frequently for my Asia-USA trips. The product has improved significantly with the introduction of the B787 and seating changes on the B777.


Typhoonpilot
 
So they're dropping JFK-NRT altogether. I remember when that started up after the merger and took that flight a couple times. I believe Northwest did this route as well, back in the day.
 
I actually just read the linked article. Unbelievable that DAL is pulling out of BKK after over 60 years of service (NWA). Now no U.S. carriers will serve one of the world's best tourist destinations. A country of over 70 million people with a capital city of over 15 million people. Lack of pax demand had more to do with the departure time than the competition. Pretty much impossible to make a connection before the flight, had to be in BKK the night before. Now anyone wanting to go there from the USA on SkyTeam can fly DAL to PVG and then China Eastern after a confusing nightmare of a connection (that would be a lot of fun :sarcasm:).


TP
 
Delta long had plans to dehub Narita and slowly move to point to point flying from the new SEA hub. With the Japanese Govt rule change allowing some daytime international Ops at Haneda, that dehubing transition moved from slow to immediate and has left Delta in a scramble to redesign the Asia Pacific network. AA and UAL have a sizable advantage at Haneda since they have JV partners there enabling many connections. DL has none.

Tough situation so tough cuts had to be made to maintain a sustainable route system for the time being. Eventually more gate space in SEA and LAX will become available and the arrival of the A350 plus more A330s will allow more point to point flying.
 
Delta long had plans to dehub Narita and slowly move to point to point flying from the new SEA hub. With the Japanese Govt rule change allowing some daytime international Ops at Haneda, that dehubing transition moved from slow to immediate and has left Delta in a scramble to redesign the Asia Pacific network. AA and UAL have a sizable advantage at Haneda since they have JV partners there enabling many connections. DL has none.

Tough situation so tough cuts had to be made to maintain a sustainable route system for the time being. Eventually more gate space in SEA and LAX will become available and the arrival of the A350 plus more A330s will allow more point to point flying.

Nope not LAX, in fact they are reducing gates soon.

"A key feature of the settlement will limit the number of annual passengers to 79.5 million by gradually reducing the number of gates at LAX from 163 to 153."

http://www.dailynews.com/article/ZZ/20060119/NEWS/601199863
 
Nope not LAX, in fact they are reducing gates soon.

"A key feature of the settlement will limit the number of annual passengers to 79.5 million by gradually reducing the number of gates at LAX from 163 to 153."

http://www.dailynews.com/article/ZZ/20060119/NEWS/601199863

While the overall number of gates on the airport will decrease, Delta's number of gates it will control will increase with the takeover of Terminal 3. It's for the other users to figure out who will be losing gates.
 
I was going to interject and say that we're launching a full-scale assault on the market with the change in terminals.
 
I was going to interject and say that we're launching a full-scale assault on the market with the change in terminals.

Granted, I'm a Widget noob but the discussion from Network the other day (the west coast network guy in fact) had lots of interesting things to say about LAX and SEA. Yes, the Koolaid is strong but this chap was clearly intelligent and gave us all much confidence.
 
Granted, I'm a Widget noob but the discussion from Network the other day (the west coast network guy in fact) had lots of interesting things to say about LAX and SEA. Yes, the Koolaid is strong but this chap was clearly intelligent and gave us all much confidence.

Was it Courtelyou?
 
I think United is making all the right moves in the Pacific right now. They're using the 787 for exactly what it was designed to do: open up long haul thin routes that could not have been possible with the 747s, A340s and even 777s of years past.

They've retreated from LAX significantly but built SFO into the launching point it needs to be to Asia and the Pacific Rim. They currently have a significant advantage over DL and AA in what a traveler can do in two flight segments as long as they are going to a relatively large city in China.

Delta is lagging in part due to things that are mostly out of their control in regards to the shifting of NRT to HND and thus the entire concept of NRT losing some value.

Ditching NRT-BKK is absolutely a shame. Despite it being low yielding compared to other Asian destinations, I believe there is something to be said for at least offering service to a destination.

For instance, Hawaii is likely to bring in much lower yields than, say, LHR or FRA. Why even fly to Hawaii at all?

For years NWA had two daily DC-10s on MSP-HNL and it was a great place for the 'high value customer' to cash in some of their business travel efforts and go somewhere with the family.

I guess one could get to BKK now on the Delta "brand" via some connection in PVG on China Eastern. But I can't imagine that being very appealing for many.

That said, just because DL is ditching JFK-NRT and NRT-BKK and downgauging NRT-MNL from what was once two daily 747-400s to a single 767-300, doesn't mean they're conceding the Pacific to United.

A lot of people roll their eyes and say that DL will never receive the 787s that they elected to push back, from what were originally NWA North America launch customer slots several years ago, to 2020.

But I think the amount of time that they've decided to defer those jets is no coincidence.

Whether or not they actually receive 787s or convert them to some other airplane like 777-200/300 or come up with some other deal like the lightly rumored trade-with-American's-A350s, a lot is happening for DL in the next three years on the west coast.

DL @ LAX is about to go from a ramp situation that is a 24/7 embarrassing clown show split up by an undergorund tunnel, to a legitimate hub first moving to the north complex in general and then building an actual new terminal that is suitable for the operation they want. Way more gates, and less congestion for a quality operation. And one that doesn't get FUBAR'd by fog all the time like SFO does, too. LAX as an airport runs smoothly...it's just their own ramp/terminal that DL needs to fix. The solution is about to break ground.

Up the coast, SEA is nearing the point at which they are tapped out as far as facility constraints in the form of gate and ramp space. When the project that is soon to start up there is finished, it will be ready to accept the flights that are likely already on the drawing board. There is simply no room to add not only the international flights that would probably do well out of there, but also more domestic feed from the lower 48. There is a reason the C-series jets will start in SEA: they will open up routes that cannot currently be flown with an appropriate sized airplane, such as MKE/IAH/SAT/MCI/etc. to SEA.

As for American's Asia strategy, I think it is lagging from UA and DL because they are at a geographical disadvantage with the DFW and LAX hubs. There is a big transit time difference in getting to many points in Asia from SEA/SFO vs. LAX. But at least they will have some more room at LAX after the DL south-to-north move.
 
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I think United is making all the right moves in the Pacific right now. They're using the 787 for exactly what it was designed to do: open up long haul thin routes that could not have been possible with the 747s, A340s and even 777s of years past.

They've retreated from LAX significantly but built SFO into the launching point it needs to be to Asia and the Pacific Rim. They currently have a significant advantage over DL and AA in what a traveler can do in two flight segments as long as they are going to a relatively large city in China.

Delta is lagging in part due to things that are mostly out of their control in regards to the shifting of NRT to HND and thus the entire concept of NRT losing some value.

Ditching NRT-BKK is absolutely a shame. Despite it being low yielding compared to other Asian destinations, I believe there is something to be said for at least offering service to a destination.

For instance, Hawaii is likely to bring in much lower yields than, say, LHR or FRA. Why even fly to Hawaii at all?

For years NWA had two daily DC-10s on MSP-HNL and it was a great place for the 'high value customer' to cash in some of their business travel efforts and go somewhere with the family.

I guess one could get to BKK now on the Delta "brand" via some connection in PVG on China Eastern. But I can't imagine that being very appealing for many.

That said, just because DL is ditching JFK-NRT and NRT-BKK and downgauging NRT-MNL from what was once two daily 747-400s to a single 767-300, doesn't mean they're conceding the Pacific to United.

A lot of people roll their eyes and say that DL will never receive the 787s that they elected to push back, from what were originally NWA North America launch customer slots several years ago, to 2020.

But I think the amount of time that they've decided to defer those jets is no coincidence.

Whether or not they actually receive 787s or convert them to some other airplane like 777-200/300 or come up with some other deal like the lightly rumored trade-with-American's-A350s, a lot is happening for DL in the next three years on the west coast.

DL @ LAX is about to go from a ramp situation that is a 24/7 embarrassing clown show split up by an undergorund tunnel, to a legitimate hub first moving to the north complex in general and then building an actual new terminal that is suitable for the operation they want. Way more gates, and less congestion for a quality operation. And one that doesn't get FUBAR'd by fog all the time like SFO does, too. LAX as an airport runs smoothly...it's just their own ramp/terminal that DL needs to fix. The solution is about to break ground.

Up the coast, SEA is nearing the point at which they are tapped out as far as facility constraints in the form of gate and ramp space. When the project that is soon to start up there is finished, it will be ready to accept the flights that are likely already on the drawing board. There is simply no room to add not only the international flights that would probably do well out of there, but also more domestic feed from the lower 48. There is a reason the C-series jets will start in SEA: they will open up routes that cannot currently be flown with an appropriate sized airplane, such as MKE/IAH/SAT/MCI/etc. to SEA.

As for American's Asia strategy, I think it is lagging from UA and DL because they are at a geographical disadvantage with the DFW and LAX hubs. There is a big transit time difference in getting to many points in Asia from SEA/SFO vs. LAX. But at least they will have some more room at LAX after the DL south-to-north move.



Very well said Nick.

I just rode UAL TPE-SFO-STL yesterday. It was pretty okay except for the annoyingly loud auto-announcement when the seat belt sign is turned on in the 787. I talked to the FAs about it and they said they have complained so hopefully that is fixed soon. I wouldn't touch their previous service on the B777 with a 2-4-2 Business class so they have improved significantly. DAL seating is still a little better in Business, but the pricing advantage seems to be going to UAL with their 2-2-2 Business class layout. They're cramming more seats in so can price better, I think.


TP
 
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