flying with a rude copilot

If you haven't flown with "that guy" sometimes, you're probably doing it wrong. Being a junior CA I get my fair share of new guys. A couple have been annoying to me, but the majority are sharp. I've learned a lot about myself as well. One early morning I corrected my FO for being in the wrong mode. I usually pretty quiet in the morning and don't make much conversation. Well he thought I snapped at him and was mad at him. He brought it up afterward and I apologized for snapping. I had no idea. Once I was awake, the trip went on great.

Another one wanted to question every little thing I was doing, and when he flew, he verbalized every little adjustment he made. I don't need to know that was going to call ramp for taxi now. Just call! But then he wouldn't verbalize the SOP required items, such as altitude and speed changes.

Or maybe I just get annoyed easily?
 
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saxman said:
Another one wanted to question every little thing I was doing, and when he flew, he verbalized every little adjustment he made. I didn't need to know that was going to call ramp for taxi now. Just call! But then he wouldn't verbalize the SOP required items, such as altitude and speed changes.

Or maybe I just get annoyed easily?
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OMG, I see that all the time at work too. Other techs will announce to all within' ear shot everything they've done. Or plan to do. Because they enjoy being heard and getting recognition. And the ones that do this are often times the nurses key sycophants.

Example: "Okay, I folded towels, I just cleaned the day room, Picked up unit trash. Kim (the charge nurse), now I'm going to go, and clean the kitchen."

I handed her a bottle of body wash and said to her: "OMG, here's your freaking trophy, now go make your damn acceptance speech already."

I got counseled for insensitivity. I gotta get out of nursing!!!
 
Blackhawk said:
In some ways it is easier as an FO once you figure out the game and how to be a chameleon. You can always put a captain on your no-fly list. As a captain it's probably a bad sign if you only fly with reserve FO's. I knew an FO who was looking at a long Key West overnight in open time. I looked at the super senior captain in the pairing and told him to think long and hard about it. "But it's a long Key West overnight? How bad can it be?" he responded.
When I next saw him he said never again. His first clue was during the intro when the captain (again, super senior), said "You know, you're the first non-reserve pilot I've flown with in months.":eek2: Same captain was in AQP once with me when he complained about always flying with reserve FO's. An FO turned to him and said, "Maybe if you weren't such a _____ you wouldn't always fly with reserve FO's."

As a captain you have to figure out how to get the troublesome FO to work with you, how to be a team player without permitting a role reversal in the cockpit. In my years I've written up 3 FO's. Two were so bad they could not make the transition from turboprop to jet when the ATRs retired and were terminated. The third... well, she's now a captain and just as bad as a captain as she was as an FO from what I hear. Look up psycho female dog from hell in a dictionary and there's a picture of her. Never in my years of flying, military, 91, 135 and 121 have I ever come so close to a physical altercation with a crew member. This was when we flew lines instead of PBS so I was stuck with her all month. I begged ALPA and the chief pilot to pull one of us off the trip. Nothing. I've told stories about her, not mentioning her name (I usually don't like to mention names in stories), to FO's on long legs just because they are such crazy stories. Several times the FO's guessed who she was based upon incidents they had with her. I once mentioned her name to an ALPA professional standards rep and he responded that they probably get a call about her each month from FO's.
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She the same one who threw her flight kit at a fed, and did a 360 on final because she wasn't happy with spacing?
 
Blackhawk said:
Unfortunately, as you said, one way some people deal with a lack of confidence is through belligerence and aggression. With this particular FO pushing back just led to an escalation on her part to the point where she was even trying to trip me up and cause me to make mistakes. As an example, flying into ATL we use to put the gate/ramp on a paper and put that paper on the center counsel for reference. After landing I was number 1 cleared across the inboard. When I looked down to see the ramp, the paper was gone. I asked, "Ramp 4?" No response. I asked again, "Are we going to Ramp 4?" No response. I could not stop as there were airplanes behind me on the inboard runway, so I turned to ramp 4. Right after I did so, ground asked where I was going, ramp 3 was the other way. The FO looked over at me with a smirk. "You knew we were suppose to go to ramp 3???" I asked. "Yeah, but YOUR the captain. You should know where you're going." I was not amused.
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"Why yes, I should - but it's your job to make sure I do, in fact, know where we're going..."

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mshunter said:
She the same one who threw her flight kit at a fed, and did a 360 on final because she wasn't happy with spacing?
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Sounds like things she would do. I've heard several FOs have almost been in fights with her. Another one who almost always flies with reserve FOs.
 
Blackhawk said:
Sounds like things she would do. I've heard several FOs have almost been in fights with her. Another one who almost always flies with reserve FOs.
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"Why are your commutable 4-days all super junior or in open time?"

-select bids where avoid-

Oh...
 
Blackhawk said:
I told the story earlier.
FO- "Wow. Look at this fantastic long Key West overnight in open time."
Me after looking at the crew-"Dude, don't do it. There's a reason that fantastic, long Key West overnight is in open time."
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There's going to be roughly 1-2%, I think, of pairings that people just don't enjoy or get along with. I mean, you're sitting up front locked in a small space for hours. Some people just clash, and that's to be expected. Usually it's some low order misunderstanding that festers, in my experience.

That said, there are also some genuinely unpleasant people in every category.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
There's going to be roughly 1-2%, I think, of pairings that people just don't enjoy or get along with. I mean, you're sitting up front locked in a small space for hours. Some people just clash, and that's to be expected. Usually it's some low order misunderstanding that festers, in my experience.

That said, there are also some genuinely unpleasant people in every category.
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I agree. Every airline will have "that pilot". At one I've heard them called "the horrible hundred".
I'm fortunate that most FOs I fly with are senior- except when I mess up my bidding such as forgetting to block off New Years, Mother's Day or the day we spring back (commute from central time to eastern, overnight at LGA, 0500 duty in so 0430 van... which my body thinks is 0230). I get along with most even though I'm not "laid back", whatever that's suppose to mean. The only ones I don't get along with are the very negative ones. I get it. Their timing in the hiring game sucked. I still don't want to hear how everything in the world sucks for 3-4 days. The company sucks. ALPA sucks. LGA sucks. The last one really kills me. "Ummm... you know you're a senior FO and if you hate LGA that much you can bid around it?" Even then they are great FOs and know their stuff. I've never had a professional issue with any of them. I'm just depressed after listening to them for 3-4 days.
 
Blackhawk said:
I agree. Every airline will have "that pilot". At one I've heard them called "the horrible hundred".
I'm fortunate that most FOs I fly with are senior- except when I mess up my bidding such as forgetting to block off New Years, Mother's Day or the day we spring back (commute from central time to eastern, overnight at LGA, 0500 duty in so 0430 van... which my body thinks is 0230). I get along with most even though I'm not "laid back", whatever that's suppose to mean. The only ones I don't get along with are the very negative ones. I get it. Their timing in the hiring game sucked. I still don't want to hear how everything in the world sucks for 3-4 days. The company sucks. ALPA sucks. LGA sucks. The last one really kills me. "Ummm... you know you're a senior FO and if you hate LGA that much you can bid around it?" Even then they are great FOs and know their stuff. I've never had a professional issue with any of them. I'm just depressed after listening to them for 3-4 days.
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This job only sucks as much as you let it.
 
Derg said:
Oh yes, I'll tell you the story about when I called him on the phone and gave him a piece of my mind about how he treated a new hire.
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I can't stand that. We've all been there as a new hire. Have basic skills and a good attitude and I will be very, very patient. We are all learning including myself. Heck, just had a fairly new FO of Japanese descent. Her English was not great but otherwise she was a great FO. Going in/out of LGA she struggled a little due to her English, but heck, I grew up there and I have a tough time understanding them at times. I told her not to worry, just tell them "Say again, slower please."
I could tell some other captains had been very short with her. Once she realized I would not jump in her drawers every time she made a mistake she relaxed and performed very well- above average I would say.
Good for you sticking up for the new hire.
 
Blackhawk said:
I can't stand that. We've all been there as a new hire. Have basic skills and a good attitude and I will be very, very patient. We are all learning including myself. Heck, just had a fairly new FO of Japanese descent. Her English was not great but otherwise she was a great FO. Going in/out of LGA she struggled a little due to her English, but heck, I grew up there and I have a tough time understanding them at times. I told her not to worry, just tell them "Say again, slower please."
I could tell some other captains had been very short with her. Once she realized I would not jump in her drawers every time she made a mistake she relaxed and performed very well- above average I would say.
Good for you sticking up for the new hire.
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I'm very protective. My scalp literally starts itching when I hear a story about someone being a mean person to probationary pilots who don't deserve that level of hubris
 
Richman said:
Long sleeves, boys and girls, is the universal warning sign.

Like an inflated blowfish, a hissing cat, or a rattling snake, it's nature's way of saying "do not approach".

Richman
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or they could just have some sicknasty tatts they need to hide from The Man
 
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