JetBlue

bc2209

bc2209

Well-Known Member
I thought i'd start up a conversation here about this new JetBlue program again. The cat is out of the bag and the selected individuals from JetBlue will be training at CAE Oxford in Mesa, AZ.

We have several members that are currently instructors for CAE. The article states that the program will be similar to the "European" programs. There have been many people bitching about how Ab-Initio programs don't work and are crazy, specifically thinking that this is what they will be doing. However, at this point the FAA does not recognize any MPL license. So even though the program might introduce CRM sooner, they will still have to get the PPL, IR, CPL, etc.

On top of this the article is stating that each cadet will have to pay upwards of $125,000!

That is an extremely steep price tag for entry. Also it looks like once the program is completed, the students will teach for CAE as well.

I do side on "this will take jobs away from regional pilots". However, I'm very curious to see how this all will work. Specifically, I am intrigued at the quality of applicant/cadet we see walk through the doors when that time comes.

CAE is very much a "international" flight school. They have only trained a very small number of American students.

Lots of crazy things happening in the industry right now. I'm going to sit back and try to enjoy the ride, while hoping for the best.

http://time.com/money/4249888/jetblue-pilot-training/
 
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Doesn't make sense to pour resources into a program like this when you still have 10,000ish ALPA represented Fee For Departure Pilots looking for work...

http://www.alpa.org/news-and-events...s-express-concern-over-gateway-select-program

WASHINGTON—The pilots of JetBlue Airways, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), today announced their concerns regarding the airline’s launch of its Gateway Select program. Citing the company’s reluctance to collaborate with ALPA in developing the new JetBlue-specific hiring, training, and qualification program, the JetBlue pilot leadership calls on the company to make the recruitment of qualified pilots a priority.

“ALPA is always open to working with airline management to find more opportunities to recruit and train the best and brightest into the pilot profession and attract them to JetBlue Airways,” said Capt. Jim Bigham, chairman of the JetBlue pilots’ Master Executive Council. “The Association has a history of supporting ab initio programs like Gateway Select. However, JetBlue management did not include its own experts in the field, the JetBlue pilots’ union, to collaborate on the hiring and training programs developed to meet the needs of our airline and customers.”

Bigham continues: “The best practices within aviation for safety programs involve peer review and open dialogue; those traits are absent here. Without inclusion of ALPA in the development of this program, it will be far more difficult to continue to have the most highly skilled and qualified pilots on our flight decks.”

Currently, pilots hired on at JetBlue average 7–10 years of flying experience and 5,000–8,000 flight hours. Under the Gateway Select program, new-hire pilots would begin flying as JetBlue first officers with 1,500 flight hours’ experience. Applicants to Gateway Select will incur a $200 screening fee and pay $125,000 to participate. The Gateway Select program is consistent with the current FAA requirements. However, thousands of pilots with significantly more flight experience are currently available for hire at JetBlue.

“JetBlue attracts thousands of pilot applicants each year each with thousands of hours of flight experience, hiring no more than 300–400 pilots to meet demand; this means we regularly turn away the vast majority of applicants,” says Capt. Bigham. “These applicants have flight-training experience from a wide array of backgrounds, and all have significantly more flight experience than the FAA’s requirements.”

Several mainline carriers have engaged in flow-through or career-pathway relationships with regional carriers. These types of enhanced programs are tried-and-true methods for recruiting experienced airline pilots to JetBlue.

“There is no greater piece of safety equipment than a well-trained and experienced pilot,” said Capt. Bigham. “We believe that the best pilot-training program is one that is able to ensure that the safest and most experienced pilots are in the cockpit. We believe in JetBlue. We are proud to work here. It is an incredible company made up of incredible employees. We want to keep it that way. By not including ALPA in the development of this program, we have concerns that JetBlue is not meeting that objective.”



Founded in 1931, ALPA is the largest airline pilot union in the world and represents over 52,000 pilots at 30 U.S. and Canadian airlines. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org or follow us on Twitter @WeAreALPA.

- See more at: http://www.alpa.org/news-and-events...r-gateway-select-program#sthash.GW7JQNCo.dpuf
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Want to be a JetBlue pilot? Here's your chance
JetBlue Airways is taking applications for 24 slots in a new program to train novice pilots to fly a passenger jet.
The airline, the busiest carrier at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport, said the program is the first of its kind at a large U.S. airline. The program will cost about $125,000 and take four years to complete. Graduates could wind up flying 100-seat passenger jets.

Sounds like JetBlue is the new ATP?

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JET BLUE.............................................................................................. He needed the Money !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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As someone who has been wanting to work at JetBlue for years, and has it number 1 on my list, it's very frustrating to hear that this program is actually moving forward.
 
Mark815 said:
As someone who has been wanting to work at JetBlue for years, and has it number 1 on my list, it's very frustrating to hear that this program is actually moving forward.
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Same here, I've wanted to fly for jetBlue since I was 15. I'm not thrilled about the program either.

But let's play devil's advocate, Let's give jetBlue a little credit for thinking outside the box a little, and for trying to make something work. The application window just opened on they will only take 24 students. Say a 6 month process to get those applications, do the interviews and selections. After they arrive at CAE, about a year of school to get them to CFI, then another 1.5-2 years before reaching 1500. Now that purely an estimate and from what I have seen when I taught at TP that should be about the average time frame, So almost at a minimum, 3 years from today to a new hire class. In that time jetBlue should hire 500-1000 pilots making these guys a small percentage of new hires, yes the program is aimed to expand IF it works, but it's going to be years before this takes full effect.

The $125,000 price tag is ridiculously high as well, anyone with half a brain and access to google will find out they could do the same exact thing for half the cost in about the same time frame. The $200 app fee is also a little ridiculous, but it's no different than some college apps in that regard.

Again I am not in support of this, but the way I see it, it should have little to no effect of current hiring trends at jetBlue for the next few years.
 
Seggy said:
Doesn't make sense to pour resources into a program like this when you still have 10,000ish ALPA represented Fee For Departure Pilots looking for work...

http://www.alpa.org/news-and-events...s-express-concern-over-gateway-select-program
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It does make sense if you are looking down the road 5 years, when the industry likely will be in a catfight over pilots. If an airline waits until it is in dire straights before it acts, their business suffers. These pilots will be fully qualified, and with more experience than many of those on this board were hired with when they started flying CRJs and ERJs.

I don't think that this will ever be a large pipeline of pilots for JetBlue, but we have lots of small pipelines in addition to the main pilot recruiting process. Apparently they aren't called "gateways" anymore, but here is the list of them:

Gateway 1 - Normal pilot recruiting process
Gateway 2 - Current employees depart the company to go to another airline for XX amount of hours, and come back after gaining experience
Gateway 3 - Current employees transfer from an internal position to a full-time pilot position (leaving the original position)
Gateway 4 - Current employees gain a seniority number, and retain their original position (Sim instructors typically, but also others from time to time)
Gateway 5 - Airline gateway program (Airlines who partner with JetBlue, such as Cape Air)
Gateway 6 - University gateway program
Gateway 7 - The program at question here
 
skypilot6 said:
Same here, I've wanted to fly for jetBlue since I was 15. I'm not thrilled about the program either.

But let's play devil's advocate, Let's give jetBlue a little credit for thinking outside the box a little, and for trying to make something work. The application window just opened on they will only take 24 students. Say a 6 month process to get those applications, do the interviews and selections. After they arrive at CAE, about a year of school to get them to CFI, then another 1.5-2 years before reaching 1500. Now that purely an estimate and from what I have seen when I taught at TP that should be about the average time frame, So almost at a minimum, 3 years from today to a new hire class. In that time jetBlue should hire 500-1000 pilots making these guys a small percentage of new hires, yes the program is aimed to expand IF it works, but it's going to be years before this takes full effect.

The $125,000 price tag is ridiculously high as well, anyone with half a brain and access to google will find out they could do the same exact thing for half the cost in about the same time frame. The $200 app fee is also a little ridiculous, but it's no different than some college apps in that regard.

Again I am not in support of this, but the way I see it, it should have little to no effect of current hiring trends at jetBlue for the next few years.
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I think your hiring numbers are a bit off. From what I gather, Jetblue is only hiring about 150-175 this year, and similar numbers for the following years. Attrition doesn't seem to be high, and they aren't retiring pilots like the legacies. 24 is a drop in the bucket 3 years from now, but when there's only a couple hundred slots per year, every one of them matters IMO.

Also, I don't disagree that $125k is a high number, but honestly, how many people here would sign up for that if they knew for a FACT that they would occupy the right seat of a major airline when done?

Many go into 6 figures of debt for school/flight certificates, and never make it to a major. My understanding of this program is, once completed, you get a seat at Jetblue. If any of the big 3 start doing something similar, I have no doubt people would pay $100k to guarantee a seat in the future.
 
Mark815 said:
I think your hiring numbers are a bit off. From what I gather, Jetblue is only hiring about 150-175 this year, and similar numbers for the following years. Attrition doesn't seem to be high, and they aren't retiring pilots like the legacies. 24 is a drop in the bucket 3 years from now, but when there's only a couple hundred slots per year, every one of them matters IMO.

Also, I don't disagree that $125k is a high number, but honestly, how many people here would sign up for that if they knew for a FACT that they would occupy the right seat of a major airline when done?

Many go into 6 figures of debt for school/flight certificates, and never make it to a major. My understanding of this program is, once completed, you get a seat at Jetblue. If any of the big 3 start doing something similar, I have no doubt people would pay $100k to guarantee a seat in the future.
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You still have to pass the 6 week initial training program once you arrive on property. JetBlue isn't big at all on allowing students to repeat modules. If you don't pass each lesson the first time (even AQP), you're looking at a quick hook.
 
Because I hate repeating myself, here is what I said on the topic on CNNs Facebook page.

Im taking a little heat on the CNN page for what I wrote. Here is what I wrote:

"Listen folks. Almost every one of my friends and colleagues has worked hard to build a career in this profession. They have endured furloughs, failed marriages, numerous relocations, and times of extended unemployment in order to pursue the career that they love. We have lost friends and mentors to the unforgiving nature of the sky. This profession is a discipline, not a gift. I respect these men and women because of our shared bond that is a passion for flying. This is not a bond I am prepared to share with just anyone who has $125,000 to spare."
 
Mark815 said:
I think your hiring numbers are a bit off. From what I gather, Jetblue is only hiring about 150-175 this year, and similar numbers for the following years. Attrition doesn't seem to be high, and they aren't retiring pilots like the legacies. 24 is a drop in the bucket 3 years from now, but when there's only a couple hundred slots per year, every one of them matters IMO.

Also, I don't disagree that $125k is a high number, but honestly, how many people here would sign up for that if they knew for a FACT that they would occupy the right seat of a major airline when done?

Many go into 6 figures of debt for school/flight certificates, and never make it to a major. My understanding of this program is, once completed, you get a seat at Jetblue. If any of the big 3 start doing something similar, I have no doubt people would pay $100k to guarantee a seat in the future.
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I heard 230-270 pilots this year, but that's also from someone that doesn't work there. but eve at 175 that's still 500 over the next 3. $125,000 is a big risk, regardless of the guaranteed job or not. You could put down that 125k and not make it thru training at one point or another and then what? Heck ATP is a bargain compared to this program, and with current hiring trends finding a job in 3 years shouldn't be a problem, it won't be jetBlue, but it will be an airline most likely, and for half the debt, with the change of the majors still well within grasp.

Edit: And if it's one thing that I and many others have learned is that NOTHING is guaranteed in this industry
 
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