Entering into the regional game- Questions

Ayork62493

Ayork62493

GBR
Little bit of a background on me, I joined this forum when I started flying at the age of 15. I've spent time on here as well as APC, trying to learn as much as I can about this crazy industry. I'm 21 now, and am graduating college in May. My career goal at this time would be to end up at one of the majors.
I've always looked at Skywest for their west coast bases, I have always wanted to live in Denver or Colorado Springs as I love the mountains and have friends there. I live in Omaha right now, so regardless I'm either going to need to commute or move wherever I go.

The reason I have questions is simply because I will have the 1500 hours by the time I graduate and now that the decision is starting to become real I'm weighing all of my options. I don't want to commute, and if I do I don't want it to be for very long at the regional level. This is why Skywest is so appealing to me, I could live where I've always wanted to and avoid commuting. And up until recently, I've been confident in that decision. But nowadays, there is so much Koolaid being poured for flow through agreements etc. That I fear by going to regional without a flow through or anything similar I will be shooting myself in the foot. I spend time on these forums every day following the changes that keep occurring, but I definitely spend more time on here Vs. APC. I know a lot can even change by the time May rolls around with the airlines but I guess I'm just looking at gathering some opinions from those who have been in the game for a while.
Thank you
 
As a potential career changer I would like to tack on a regional question if I may as well. What does a month schedule look like to a first year non commuter? Maybe an average month.
 
1. Flow Through agreements are ALPA fraud. You will be prevented from progressing at your carrier of choice if you fly for a wholly owned regional. They can and do prevent pilots from receiving calls for interviews. They cancel interviews. They rescind job offers. They will poach the competition's labor instead.

2. Never ask your union, your company, or your AME for help with transient depression, or anything that could ground you. Never disclose anything to the FAA that you don't have to. Life gets tough on fast food wages and a regional can easily become a trap if you are vocal about union issues. Its better to vote with your feet, if you can.

3. The simulator is often used as a tool of discipline. Most company's have a simulator instructor drunk on ego. Find out who they are and never agree to a training cycle with one. Call in sick.

4. Don't drink too much and, if you are ever in a position where its show time and you are hungover, call in sick, resign, and do NOT fly. Do not enter HIMS.

5. Don't fly fatigued.

6. Congratulations! You made it.
 
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It's a complex decision and I'm sure you will hear many different answers. And yea, there seems to be a whole lot of "kool-aid" being passed around everywhere these days. Everyone is getting desperate for new hires. I would list the following in order of what I think should be important for a prospective new hire:

1) Quality of Life... Easy commute, short reserve time, first year pay, schedule flexibility. All of those factor in.

2) Growth and upgrade potential. How long can you realistically expect to spend as an FO? Growth generally leads to good qol. Less time on reserve (and also potentially more money as a line holder).
 
Wardogg said:
As a potential career changer I would like to tack on a regional question if I may as well. What does a month schedule look like to a first year non commuter? Maybe an average month.
Click to expand...

They can get as bad as 10 days off. I've been out of the game for a long while so someone else will have to give you the skinny about the new rest rules.
 
Wardogg said:
As a potential career changer I would like to tack on a regional question if I may as well. What does a month schedule look like to a first year non commuter? Maybe an average month.
Click to expand...
Well, here's a snap shot of a fellow classmate's December schedule here at PSA:



CLT round 2 line holder with 11 months on property. My schedule doesn't have nearly the time off but I am crediting almost 90 hours.
 
I'm a SkyWest CA that has been based as a FO in DEN and COS, and was recently transferred as a CA from MSP to COS. Send me a PM and we can chat over the phone if you'd like.

I also grew up in Colorado if you have questions about that too (yes, it is an awesome place to live!).
 
chrisreedrules said:
Well, here's a snap shot of a fellow classmate's December schedule here at PSA:



CLT round 2 line holder with 11 months on property. My schedule doesn't have nearly the time off but I am crediting almost 90 hours.
Click to expand...


So hes credited with 66 hours but i see some of the pay scales on APC say a minimum of 75. How many days home would you say you have at 90 hours?
 
Wardogg said:
So hes credited with 66 hours but i see some of the pay scales on APC say a minimum of 75. How many days home would you say you have at 90 hours?
Click to expand...
You can go down to a minimum of 65 hours at PSA. I will only have 12 hard days off in December. I like to have at least 13 but I'll take the extra money in December. I have taxes to pay come the spring.
 
SKYROCK said:
1. Flow Through agreements are ALPA fraud. You will be prevented from progressing at your carrier of choice if you fly for a wholly owned regional. They can and do prevent pilots from receiving calls for interviews. They cancel interviews. They rescind job offers. They will poach the competition's labor instead.

2. Never ask your union, your company, or your AME for help with transient depression, or anything that could ground you. Never disclose anything to the FAA that you don't have to. Life gets tough on fast food wages and a regional can easily become a trap if you are vocal about union issues. Its better to vote with your feet, if you can.

3. The simulator is often used as a tool of discipline. Most company's have a simulator instructor drunk on ego. Find out who they are and never agree to a training cycle with one. Call in sick.

4. Don't drink too much and, if you are ever in a position where its show time and you are hungover, call in sick, resign, and do NOT fly. Do not enter HIMS.

5. Don't fly fatigued.

6. Congratulations! You made it.
Click to expand...
That's quite an interesting list.
 
I did a ton of research too and had a lot of inside info on the industry due to going to an aviation school and knowing pilots at several regionals. I applied to the one with the best contract, QOL, and job security.

What I learned:

6 months later everything is completely different. 180° reversal in the industry. I might as well have just picked a regional out of a hat. Don't bother trying to pick a good one, just go wherever you can live in base. Skywest should be fine.
 
SKYROCK said:
1. Flow Through agreements are ALPA fraud. You will be prevented from progressing at your carrier of choice if you fly for a wholly owned regional. They can and do prevent pilots from receiving calls for interviews. They cancel interviews. They rescind job offers. They will poach the competition's labor instead.

2. Never ask your union, your company, or your AME for help with transient depression, or anything that could ground you. Never disclose anything to the FAA that you don't have to. Life gets tough on fast food wages and a regional can easily become a trap if you are vocal about union issues. Its better to vote with your feet, if you can.

3. The simulator is often used as a tool of discipline. Most company's have a simulator instructor drunk on ego. Find out who they are and never agree to a training cycle with one. Call in sick.

4. Don't drink too much and, if you are ever in a position where its show time and you are hungover, call in sick, resign, and do NOT fly. Do not enter HIMS.

5. Don't fly fatigued.

6. Congratulations! You made it.
Click to expand...


SKYROCK said:
They can get as bad as 10 days off. I've been out of the game for a long while so someone else will have to give you the skinny about the new rest rules.
Click to expand...

^^^ Take that for what it's worth....
 
SKYROCK said:
1. Flow Through agreements are ALPA fraud. You will be prevented from progressing at your carrier of choice if you fly for a wholly owned regional. They can and do prevent pilots from receiving calls for interviews. They cancel interviews. They rescind job offers. They will poach the competition's labor instead.

2. Never ask your union, your company, or your AME for help with transient depression, or anything that could ground you. Never disclose anything to the FAA that you don't have to. Life gets tough on fast food wages and a regional can easily become a trap if you are vocal about union issues. Its better to vote with your feet, if you can.

3. The simulator is often used as a tool of discipline. Most company's have a simulator instructor drunk on ego. Find out who they are and never agree to a training cycle with one. Call in sick.

4. Don't drink too much and, if you are ever in a position where its show time and you are hungover, call in sick, resign, and do NOT fly. Do not enter HIMS.

5. Don't fly fatigued.

6. Congratulations! You made it.
Click to expand...

That's a very bizarre post. The OP seems like an intelligent individual looking for sound advice. I hope he disregards the seemingly clinical paranoia in that post.
 
Ayork62493 said:
Little bit of a background on me, I joined this forum when I started flying at the age of 15. I've spent time on here as well as APC, trying to learn as much as I can about this crazy industry. I'm 21 now, and am graduating college in May. My career goal at this time would be to end up at one of the majors.
I've always looked at Skywest for their west coast bases, I have always wanted to live in Denver or Colorado Springs as I love the mountains and have friends there. I live in Omaha right now, so regardless I'm either going to need to commute or move wherever I go.

The reason I have questions is simply because I will have the 1500 hours by the time I graduate and now that the decision is starting to become real I'm weighing all of my options. I don't want to commute, and if I do I don't want it to be for very long at the regional level. This is why Skywest is so appealing to me, I could live where I've always wanted to and avoid commuting. And up until recently, I've been confident in that decision. But nowadays, there is so much Koolaid being poured for flow through agreements etc. That I fear by going to regional without a flow through or anything similar I will be shooting myself in the foot. I spend time on these forums every day following the changes that keep occurring, but I definitely spend more time on here Vs. APC. I know a lot can even change by the time May rolls around with the airlines but I guess I'm just looking at gathering some opinions from those who have been in the game for a while.
Thank you
Click to expand...

The only major with a "solid" flow agreement is AA, Envoy is effectively stapled to AA's list.. United and Delta don't have anything more than preferential interviews. With the large amounts of attrition over the next 5-10 years, you should be able to go anywhere you want. I wouldn't let a flow through agreement (or lack thereof) drive you away from a regional who has a large base(s) where you want to live long term. If you honestly want to live in CO long term, you could do a lot worse than Skywest. I know several guys there who are all very happy.
 
That didn't take long for somebody to try and rotten this post. That's why I've unfortunately been avoiding posting something about which regional I should consider.

Thanks to all those who post positive and constructive feedback.
 
SKYROCK said:
1. Flow Through agreements are ALPA fraud. You will be prevented from progressing at your carrier of choice if you fly for a wholly owned regional. They can and do prevent pilots from receiving calls for interviews. They cancel interviews. They rescind job offers. They will poach the competition's labor instead.

2. Never ask your union, your company, or your AME for help with transient depression, or anything that could ground you. Never disclose anything to the FAA that you don't have to. Life gets tough on fast food wages and a regional can easily become a trap if you are vocal about union issues. Its better to vote with your feet, if you can.

3. The simulator is often used as a tool of discipline. Most company's have a simulator instructor drunk on ego. Find out who they are and never agree to a training cycle with one. Call in sick.

4. Don't drink too much and, if you are ever in a position where its show time and you are hungover, call in sick, resign, and do NOT fly. Do not enter HIMS.

5. Don't fly fatigued.

6. Congratulations! You made it.
Click to expand...

Related, watch for jaded pilots who believe in conspiracy theories.
 
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