Airshows shouldn't exist

ATN_Pilot said:
Not really. The entire economy would collapse without air travel, and civil society with it.
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Commercial air travel only became somewhat commonplace in the 1960s, and civil society did quite well up until that point.

Is it convenient? Of course. But lots of people do just fine without travelling by airplane. Truth be told, I would like my job a lot more if airplanes didn't exist.
 
Okay, I'm home. Time for the schooling. ;)

mshunter said:
Nope. Try again. 90% of the worlds goods are shipped by boat, which then goes on to be put in trucks. That's not to discount the convenience of shipping by air. But the world economy certainly would not collapse, and we wouldn't be pushed back into the dark ages. Things would certainly change, but it's not all doom and gloom, "my way is the only way" like you so often like to describe it. Your opinion, is wrong. Facts do not support it.

How, if only 10% of shipping is left (with a large portion of that being by train, with only 1% done by air) would the world economy collapse? You're telling us, that because little Johnny didn't get his iPad in 4 days, the world economy would be doomed? Or since there wasn't those pretty flowers at the wedding, divorce rates would skyrocket, leading to citizens going out into the street and creating anarchy? You're being ridiculous, and narrow minded.
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This is very one-dimensional thinking. You're looking at the amount of goods rather than the value of goods. Cheap things get sent by boat. Expensive things get sent by airplane. Roughly half of the value of manufactured products are sent by air. This is because expensive things like electronic components get sent by air, while things like clothes get sent by sea. But this is really beside the point, because air freight is about the least of aviation's contribution to the world economy.

No, aviation's contribution is far more wide-reaching than that, both direct and indirect. Tourism, business travel, aerial mapping, engine and airframe manufacturing, aviation employment, etc. are all direct contributors to the economy. Just direct earnings, not revenue, but earnings, are around half a trillion dollars. The entire United States GDP is about $17 trillion, mind you. Of that $17 trillion GDP, about $1.5 trillion is from aviation. That's about 8% of total GDP coming from aviation. Only financial services and government itself (including all state and local government) rival aviation's contribution. Nearly 12 millions people are employed in aviation. That's over 8% of the entire labor population in the country.

And then there's what economists call the "multiplier effect." This is indirect contribution to the economy. In other words, but for aviation's existence and contributions, this money and employment would not exist. Economists estimate that aviation produces about 3 dollars in indirect contribution to the economy for every 1 dollar of direct contribution. You do the math.

Sorry, but the world can no longer get by without aviation. The economic and therefore social collapse that would take place if aviation suddenly ceased to exist would send us back to the stone age.

FYI, the FAA, IATA, ICAO, GAO, Boeing, and many other groups put together reports on this stuff every few years. I recommend reading them to get a better understanding of just how important your industry is to the economy.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Okay, I'm home. Time for the schooling. ;)



This is very one-dimensional thinking. You're looking at the amount of goods rather than the value of goods. Cheap things get sent by boat. Expensive things get sent by airplane. Roughly half of the value of manufactured products are sent by air. This is because expensive things like electronic components get sent by air, while things like clothes get sent by sea. But this is really beside the point, because air freight is about the least of aviation's contribution to the world economy.

No, aviation's contribution is far more wide-reaching than that, both direct and indirect. Tourism, business travel, aerial mapping, engine and airframe manufacturing, aviation employment, etc. are all direct contributors to the economy. Just direct earnings, not revenue, but earnings, are around half a trillion dollars. The entire United States GDP is about $17 trillion, mind you. Of that $17 trillion GDP, about $1.5 trillion is from aviation. That's about 8% of total GDP coming from aviation. Only financial services and government itself (including all state and local government) rival aviation's contribution. Nearly 12 millions people are employed in aviation. That's over 8% of the entire labor population in the country.

And then there's what economists call the "multiplier effect." This is indirect contribution to the economy. In other words, but for aviation's existence and contributions, this money and employment would not exist. Economists estimate that aviation produces about 3 dollars in indirect contribution to the economy for every 1 dollar of direct contribution. You do the math.

Sorry, but the world can no longer get by without aviation. The economic and therefore social collapse that would take place if aviation suddenly ceased to exist would send us back to the stone age.

FYI, the FAA, IATA, ICAO, GAO, Boeing, and many other groups put together reports on this stuff every few years. I recommend reading them to get a better understanding of just how important your industry is to the economy.
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Perfect reason why we don't need user fees!
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Cheap things get sent by boat. Expensive things get sent by airplane.
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Right, so if there aren't any airplanes, no more expensive things! You can't send expensive things by BOAT, you maniac! They might get wet!

The economic and therefore social collapse that would take place if aviation suddenly ceased to exist would send us back to the stone age.
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That may be the most ludicrous thing I've ever read on the Interwebz, and as everyone knows full well, that's going a ways. Tomorrow, the aliens come down and take all of our airplanes and we're suddenly all using flint knives and sniffing each other's butts in spite of the fact that we still have INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, NON-EUCLIDEAN GEOMETRY, PARTICLE-ACCELERATORS, MULTI-DIMENSIONAL MATHEMATICS, MATERIALS SCIENCE etc etc etc etc? That's whatever is just slightly more ludicrous than farsical. Aviation is over a century old. Yeah, it's cool and useful that we can fly, in sort of the same way that it's cool and useful that we can build boats. To suggest that without airplanes humanity would be reduced to beating each other with clubs is either hysterically overwrought, or laughably self-important, or maybe both. People will find a way to get things from one place to another without you, because, it turns out, you are not actually the bright center of the Universe.
 
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You may have missed the memo, but I'm not a part of the aviation industry anymore. So if you want to argue against my points, go right ahead, but to claim that they're about self-importance or being the "bright center of the Universe" is simply BS.

And you'll still be wrong. :D
 
mshunter said:
Nope. Try again. 90% of the worlds goods are shipped by boat, which then goes on to be put in trucks. That's not to discount the convenience of shipping by air. But the world economy certainly would not collapse, and we wouldn't be pushed back into the dark ages. Things would certainly change, but it's not all doom and gloom, "my way is the only way" like you so often like to describe it. Your opinion, is wrong. Facts do not support it.

How, if only 10% of shipping is left (with a large portion of that being by train, with only 1% done by air) would the world economy collapse? You're telling us, that because little Johnny didn't get his iPad in 4 days, the world economy would be doomed? Or since there wasn't those pretty flowers at the wedding, divorce rates would skyrocket, leading to citizens going out into the street and creating anarchy? You're being ridiculous, and narrow minded.

As for meetings, Skype. Things that you just have to be there for, will have to wait. I flew charter for a few years. Better than 75% of who we flew, wasn't for business. People would have to move closer to their work for those that commute by air, or, they'd have to use the train system, much like they already do in the Northeast.


http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/r...freight_shipments_in_america/html/entire.html
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Over 3 million truckers grossing beyond 80,000 lbs most days can't be sneezed at. Ok, ships move massive amounts of product as do trains- but neither of them OR airplanes bump a dock.
 
"Cheap things get sent by boat. Expensive things get sent by airplane."

Boy, you learn something new on here everyday. I had no idea that Zenvo ST1's, Ferrari LaFerraris's, Pagani Huayra's, Koenigsegg One's, Motors Lykan Hypersport's, Ferrari F60 America's, Mansory Viere Bugatti Veyron's, Koenigsegg CCXR Trevita's, Lamborghini Veneno's, Lamborhini Sesto Elemento's, LaFerrari FXX K's, Maybach Exelero's, etc., were all delivered all over the world by airplane and not by ship. Who knew?
 
A Life Aloft said:
"Cheap things get sent by boat. Expensive things get sent by airplane." Boy, you learn something new on here everyday. I had no idea that Zenvo ST1's, Ferrari LaFerraris's, Pagani Huayra's, Koenigsegg One's, Motors Lykan Hypersport's, Ferrari F60 America's, Mansory Viere Bugatti Veyron's, Koenigsegg CCXR Trevita's, Lamborghini Veneno's, Lamborhini Sesto Elemento's, LaFerrari FXX K's, Maybach Exelero's, etc., were all delivered all over the world by airplane and not by ship. Who knew? I need to remember
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I didn't realize that the audience was so dense as to need a disclaimer that there are exceptions to every rule, and I was speaking in aggregate. My mistake. :rolleyes:
 
I know......there are exceptions just everywhere........like the fact that container shipping is a $6 trillion industry that moves more than 95% of the world’s manufactured goods.
Must be just mostly the cheap chit though.
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A Life Aloft said:
I know......there are exceptions just everywhere........like the fact that container shipping is a $6 trillion industry that moves more than 95% of the world’s manufactured goods. Must be just mostly the cheap chit though.
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Yep. That's correct. Sorry, but them's the facts.
 
Let's see. Shipping industry = $6 trillion industry. Air freight = $1.7 trillion in U.S. So say $2-$2.5 trillion world wide. If we just outsource just a few more shipping companies, we should be able to undercut air freight altogether.





:rolleyes:
 
@ATN_Pilot
I'm glad the others here did the research (@Cptnchia and @A Life Aloft ) because I dont have the time too.

They reinforced their points with cold hard facts. As much as I love this industry; I, we (but not you I guess) know where we stand regarding impact to the economy.
Your hypothesis of the collapse of civilization with the demise of air transport was proven false.

Please eat your slice of humble pie quietly. If you want to continue a debate on the merits of airshow safety, we can do that.
 
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