Ameriflight and RACCA on the pilot shortage

Skåning said:
OH i thought you were a chick :D
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I honestly do not feel bad for any of the companies having a hard time filling their cockpits. For years the bottom feeders have banked on people who are so passionate about aviation that they would accept poverty level wages to build time. I get it, there is time that needs to be spent getting experience but not at such low wages and definitely not paying to do so.

In a few years time, the only people that will be able to afford 60K plus in training for a sub 30K job are those who come from money. The smart ones are now investing their money And time in other careers.

I am the only one of my friends who finished the flight.training program and am now flying for a living. All of my friends said fu@% it and peeled off for better careers. They are now making more than 40K, meanwhile I am livinng paycheck to paycheck constantly behind on bills making less than 25K living the dream. I am also one of the lucky ones who found a job right after training


Maybe I am being a Debbie Downer, but hey payday was yesterday so that may be why :) I am aware that no one is forcing me to have this career, all my life I dreamed of flying and I enjoy the hell out of my job
 
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My question is what will all the regionals and cargo feeder airlines do in the next few years? I hear a lot of complaining and blaming of the new regs, but yet to hear of a possible solution to attract pilots. Other than the sign on bonus, which is not going to be good enough.
 
Inverted said:
Single pilot IFR freight flying is a unique experience, I am glad I did it for sure. I am not sure I would change it either, as it got me where I am so far, and I am happy with that. However, the skills we learned and used there will deteriorate since we don't use them anymore. At that point, the skills are no better than guys that have been sitting in a part 25 jet flying pax... This whole "makes a better pilot" thing is ridiculous. Sure my job is easier now than it was when I was flying freight, isn't that the point? Bragging about how hard we had it is a very odd standpoint.
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Cargo-carrier Ameriflight has found that many new-hire pilots require additional training, often another week’s worth. “The quality of pilot candidates has degraded to where we have to completely change our training program,” said Ameriflight president Andrew Lotter. “We have to do remedial training. Situational awareness and IFR proficiency is where they’re deficient.”

As someone who just hit 135 mins looking at their first post CFI gig, I find this statement effing ridiculous. I seriously considered AMF but think I may go elsewhere due to a number of factors, many of which probably contribute to their pilot shortage woes.

When you pay a bottom tier salary, you get bottom of the barrel candidates. If they want to attract more proficient pilots, they probably need to add another 10k to starting pay. I think most people that can get another job are doing it. I would have to take a pay cut from instructing (seriously) to fly at AMF in the Chieftain, and I'm not willing to do that for a crappy schedule that I have little control over. Especially when I can find a few other gigs that I'm currently looking at that actually do start with that extra 10k.
 
ozziecat35 said:
I have to ponder over how many people who may flame you and are established in the industry, actually benefited from the lack of a 1500 rule to begin with back in the day? I could smash bugs in the pattern for a thousand hours, but does that really determine my feasibility as a 121 FO? Let's be honest, not really. Barring the 135 stuff, Pre 3407 knee jerk reaction mania, the system basically worked. One guy fell through the cracks and bam. That said, if it weren't for the "shortage" we're seeing now, pay would still be terrible. It's maybe less terrible now. I dunno, I'm not there. I'm sitting on the far end of 1500 TT. I kind of have the best of both worlds right now, I have a decent non-aviation job, benefits, etc, and I fly survey part time. I guess there could be worse things.
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Brah, every single airliner crash that resulted in a fatal accident in the last 10 years in the United States had somebody from Gulfstream at the controls.

The system was a huge failure.
 
UAL747400 said:
It was just some light ribbing, man.
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I picked up on that, and my post was a tad on the sarcastic side as well.

I only felt the need to mention that after watching a certain AMF thread on FB blow up, with one guy referring to regional pilots as "•". I didn't jump on that thread (because I couldn't), but having flown both varieties, I feel compelled to remind 135 cargo pilots of precisely how valued their skills are.

Nothing personal toward you. You've always been pretty civil and rational around here.

EDIT: the term in quotes was auto censored, but it was a derogatory term for female gentialia and was used to imply that regional pilots are not "real men"
 
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WS said:
Cargo-carrier Ameriflight has found that many new-hire pilots require additional training, often another week’s worth. “The quality of pilot candidates has degraded to where we have to completely change our training program,” said Ameriflight president Andrew Lotter. “We have to do remedial training. Situational awareness and IFR proficiency is where they’re deficient.”

As someone who just hit 135 mins looking at their first post CFI gig, I find this statement effing ridiculous. I seriously considered AMF but think I may go elsewhere due to a number of factors, many of which probably contribute to their pilot shortage woes.

When you pay a bottom tier salary, you get bottom of the barrel candidates. If they want to attract more proficient pilots, they probably need to add another 10k to starting pay. I think most people that can get another job are doing it. I would have to take a pay cut from instructing (seriously) to fly at AMF in the Chieftain, and I'm not willing to do that for a crappy schedule that I have little control over. Especially when I can find a few other gigs that I'm currently looking at that actually do start with that extra 10k.
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Honestly, the biggest problem that AMF won't address right now is their training. They complain that they have a lack of qualified applicants, yet they are asking for an exemption to hire pilot with less than 1200 hours (explain that bat poop crazy theory to me). What they fail to recognize, is that with every passing year, their tired, increasingly irrelevant technology is becoming more and more aged. The likelihood that an applicant to AMF has seen a steam gauge airplane AT ALL is getting lower and lower. The attitude and cockiness of the training department hasn't changed as evidenced by current members of the training department and resident JC members. The sims are old and outdated, the training captains are usually inconsistent and and there is little to no emphasis on training, but rather there is an evaluating and checking mentality to it.

The "quality" applicant argument to me is a pathetic attempt to dodge the real issues, very similar to how the regionals won't address pay. There are several other issues within the freight industry, but if they treated it for what it really was, they would be much more successful.
 
Inverted said:
Is that really true?
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Colgan 3407, Comair 5191, and Pinnacle 3701 all had Gulfstreams flying the plane. Looking through Wiki, I don't think I missed anything outside of some UPS/FedEx planes that went down for cargo burning up/the BHM crash. Not to downplay those crashes at all, it's just that with the cargo burning out of control, there's no pilot input. BHM was an unstabalized approach.
 
ozziecat35 said:
I have to ponder over how many people who may flame you and are established in the industry, actually benefited from the lack of a 1500 rule to begin with back in the day? I could smash bugs in the pattern for a thousand hours, but does that really determine my feasibility as a 121 FO? Let's be honest, not really. Barring the 135 stuff, Pre 3407 knee jerk reaction mania, the system basically worked. One guy fell through the cracks and bam. That said, if it weren't for the "shortage" we're seeing now, pay would still be terrible. It's maybe less terrible now. I dunno, I'm not there. I'm sitting on the far end of 1500 TT. I kind of have the best of both worlds right now, I have a decent non-aviation job, benefits, etc, and I fly survey part time. I guess there could be worse things.
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I agree with a lot of your post, but you also missed the mark by a wide margin on a few things. I agree the 1500/ATP rule was knee jerk and hasn't added anything to safely. But that is because what was broken with the old system is still broken and in a lot of ways even worse than it was before the 1500 hour rule. It wasn't one guy fell through the cracks, a lot of people have, we have just gotten lucky. The problem was/is the hiring practices of some companies. Companies need to start hiring people instead of logbooks.
 
jtrain609 said:
Colgan 3407, Comair 5191, and Pinnacle 3701 all had Gulfstreams flying the plane. Looking through Wiki, I don't think I missed anything outside of some UPS/FedEx planes that went down for cargo burning up/the BHM crash. Not to downplay those crashes at all, it's just that with the cargo burning out of control, there's no pilot input. BHM was an unstabalized approach.
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Really? Just cargo, so it doesn't matter. Wow, stay classy, you're the exact reason that 117 only applies to pax carriers. It's a damn shame the BHM plane didn't take people out on the ground, the whole 117 carveout would have been gone the next day.
 
It would be interesting to see how many non current commercials and ATPs are out there. I'm sure some guys would love to get back in it but pay or QOL are holding them back. And, ya know, currency.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Really? Just cargo, so it doesn't matter. Wow, stay classy, you're the exact reason that 117 only applies to pax carriers. It's a damn shame the BHM plane didn't take people out on the ground, the whole 117 carveout would have been gone the next day.
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Piss off, mate. The cargo carve out is BS, and the BHM crash was a whole lot of things. After a bunch of airlines pulled the data on that approach, folks realized that they were skirting disaster on a fairly regular basis. You could have three red and one white on the PAPI and still hit that hill.
 
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