Gusty Winds Full Flaps?

ppragman said:
I've done it in certain piper singles. Works great in airplanes with Johnson Bars to get rid of your lift as you are about to touch down. It's really good in gusty conditions in said Piper singles.
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I remember my first Seminole/Seneca lesson.

"How will I know I'm at (whatever) degrees?"
Instructor: "YOU WILL KNOW..."

Christ I need to fly more GA.
 
I use what I need in 172s, I usually try to make the first exit possible unless doing so creates a long taxi. Flaps 30 helps with that. I try to have fun so my standard landing when possible is coming in very hot and high then dumping flaps full and slipping it in on short final. My first CFI told me not to slip with full flaps, every CFI since then said just don't be an idiot and get too slow or keep going if you lose rudder authority and you're fine. Thus, I land/slip with full flaps pretty much every time I fly unless it's so windy I don't need full flaps to slow down. That's what being a pilot in a light GA plane is right, doing what you need to do the get the airplane to do what you want it to without stalling/crashing?
 
UAL747400 said:
I know this is an on-going joke, but I have to admit something. Is this really a thing? :)
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Has no real purpose except at a fly-in when you're entered in the accuracy landing contest. Works best in a PA-28 where you go from 40* to flaps up in one second.

Just float it in using ground effect. Cross the line and raise the flaps. That puppy lands right now.

No it wasn't cheating because no one noticed what I did.
 
ChasenSFO said:
I use what I need in 172s, I usually try to make the first exit possible unless doing so creates a long taxi. Flaps 30 helps with that. I try to have fun so my standard landing when possible is coming in very hot and high then dumping flaps full and slipping it in on short final. My first CFI told me not to slip with full flaps, every CFI since then said just don't be an idiot and get too slow or keep going if you lose rudder authority and you're fine. Thus, I land/slip with full flaps pretty much every time I fly unless it's so windy I don't need full flaps to slow down. That's what being a pilot in a light GA plane is right, doing what you need to do the get the airplane to do what you want it to without stalling/crashing?
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At some points slipping with full flaps in a 172 will cause a flutter which is very noticeable. I think there is some comment in the POH (which I do not have at the moment) about avoiding slips with full flaps in some models. Never raised the flaps in a flare in gusty conditions, but in a spot landing contest I have.
 
z987k said:
The electric flaps on the Cessna work pretty well to.
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And when one of them doesn't rise, then - oh well - you'll just roll it over the runway.:rolleyes:
One of the reasons I like the Johnson bar better than motors.
 
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z987k said:
The electric flaps on the Cessna work pretty well to. Flip them up and it settles in, nothing abrupt at all.
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You know, I've never had luck with that in the caravan. For some reason whenever i try that I always clunk it on. The Johnson bar in the Cherokee works great though.

On the original topic, I suppose there are conditions that favor a low flap landing but I've landed PA32s, 208, and PA31 in everything up to 30G45 with 20+ of that being crosswind and found that at least in those three aircraft the familiar handling and sight picture of full flaps outweighed any benefits of a partial flap landing.
 
ChasenSFO said:
I use what I need in 172s, I usually try to make the first exit possible unless doing so creates a long taxi. Flaps 30 helps with that. I try to have fun so my standard landing when possible is coming in very hot and high then dumping flaps full and slipping it in on short final. My first CFI told me not to slip with full flaps, every CFI since then said just don't be an idiot and get too slow or keep going if you lose rudder authority and you're fine. Thus, I land/slip with full flaps pretty much every time I fly unless it's so windy I don't need full flaps to slow down. That's what being a pilot in a light GA plane is right, doing what you need to do the get the airplane to do what you want it to without stalling/crashing?
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Nearly all Cessna 172s I've seen have a cockpit placard for "Avoid slips with full flaps extended"
 
Roger Roger said:
You know, I've never had luck with that in the caravan. For some reason whenever i try that I always clunk it on. The Johnson bar in the Cherokee works great though.

On the original topic, I suppose there are conditions that favor a low flap landing but I've landed PA32s, 208, and PA31 in everything up to 30G45 with 20+ of that being crosswind and found that at least in those three aircraft the familiar handling and sight picture of full flaps outweighed any benefits of a partial flap landing.
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This is certainly true in almost every airplane I've flown. My "most sketchy" was 40kts directly across in a 207 when I was younger (read dumber), and I used full flaps because it felt way more comfortable than when I tried to come in with partial. The King Air C90 I'm flying now doesn't have performance data for anything other than a full flap landing, so, there ya go. The Navajo I routinely landed at a partial setting mainly because of the gravel and snow getting thrown into the flaps and you could really get some good rock dings on the flaps - that was company policy, but I wonder if a slower touchdown speed with 40° flaps would have kicked up less.

I've noticed that the Caravan was a lot easier to land at a partial flap setting than with full with the big tires.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Nearly all Cessna 172s I've seen have a cockpit placard for "Avoid slips with full flaps extended"
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If that placard exists in the newer S models I've never noticed it, couldn't find anything in the 172S POH about it either but correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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There's no placard in the R or S model 172s, at least not listed in the POHs that I have for them), and I don't ever remember seeing one in the old M and N models I flew. There is a note in Section 4 in the landing section of my 172S POH that states,

"Steep slips with flap settings great than 20° can cause a slight tendency for the elevator to oscillate under certain combinations of airspeed, sideslip angle, and center of gravity loadings."

In fact, that same exact warning is in my 1975 Cessna Model 172 and Skyhawk Owner's Manual. I honestly can't remember seeing an actual placard in any of the 172s I've flown about it, though I've been stuck in DA-40 hell for a while and my memory of 172s grows ever fuzzier as my dislike for Diamonds grows.
 
ChasenSFO said:
If that placard exists in the newer S modesl I've never noticed it, couldn't find anything in the 172S POH about it either but correct me if I'm wrong.
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I have not seen it in anything newer than the 172N models, which I think corresponds to when Cessna limited the max flap setting to 30 degrees. From what I have seen is that if you slip with the 40 degree flap setting, you may experience a nose down pitch from the airflow being disturbed over the horizontal stabilizer. This is eliminated when you neutralize the rudder.
 
I slipped with full flaps on my PPL checkride and the DPE didn't say anything, nor have I ever had any elevator oscillations. Obviously if I ever did, I would kick out of the slip and raise the flaps a notch and see if that helped otherwise if I couldn't make it I'd just go around. But again, I've never ran into any issues slipping at 65kts with flaps 30 in 172R and 172S models.
 
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