Gusty Winds Full Flaps?

Autothrust Blue said:
I should delete everything I just wrote and replace it with this, shouldn't I?
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Boris just has a way with words.

bc2209 said:
I received a slight tongue lashing today for reaching for full flaps on approach today in gusty conditions (12 gusting 20) good amount of crosswind

He explained that full flaps during strong and gusting winds are a safety hazard and I would surely fail a check ride if I did that.

I was able to find some information in the Airplane Flying Handbook about not deploying full flaps in turbulent and gusty crosswinds but it doesn't sound like it's a...NO, NEVER, EVER situation.

I learned something today no doubt about that. But i'd like to hear some thoughts.

Good practice? Always should be done with reduced flaps? PIC decision?

Thanks guys
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You learned that your instructor doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Ditto on the -170/-190 with 5 and FULL. FULL is 'mostly' used for situations that are maximum performance, and 5 is used for everything else, including category II.
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That is interesting. On the Canuk jet it was flaps full, always. In my turboprop my technique is flaps full, always but realistically it doesn't matter.
Actually, fun story... because of the placement of the flaps on the checklist at my current shop I've noticed that in high workload situations some uh... people have forgot to put them full when they intended to. No problem really except well perhaps the checklist needs re-worked.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Oh there's nothing as much fun as a Sooper Xpurt Instructor. If there's no prohibition against it in the AFM, tell him to do something anatomically impossible with himself.
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Lick his elbow?
 
z987k said:
That is interesting. On the Canuk jet it was flaps full, always.
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Yeah, I don't know what it is with Embraer and reduced flap landings, but every one of their products I've flown, something less than full flaps was considered "normal" landing flaps. (22 on the 145, vs. 45, 25/45 and 5/FULL.) That said, like I said, when I think I need to use them, I use them. That's what I'm there for.

CRJ is 'special' I guess.
In my turboprop my technique is flaps full, always but realistically it doesn't matter.
Actually, fun story... because of the placement of the flaps on the checklist at my current shop I've noticed that in high workload situations some uh... people have forgot to put them full when they intended to. No problem really except well perhaps the checklist needs re-worked.
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Landing flaps is the last item on all of our before landing checklists.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Yeah, I don't know what it is with Embraer and reduced flap landings, but every one of their products I've flown, something less than full flaps was considered "normal" landing flaps. (22 on the 145, vs. 45, 25/45 and 5/FULL.) That said, like I said, when I think I need to use them, I use them. That's what I'm there for.

CRJ is 'special' I guess.

Landing flaps is the last item on all of our before landing checklists.
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We have special checklists invented by someone who thought the manufacturer, FSI and all prevailing aviation wisdom is wrong.
 
On the E190, we land flaps 5 unless on a contaminated or short runway. CAT III is always flaps 5 for go-around purposes. It seems to me that the plane just likes to fly approaches fast. When you get a slow Vapp, the plane seems to "wallow" around a lot, particularly in gusty conditions. I would prefer to be flaps 5 with Stall Prot Ice speeds (10 knots fast). It seems to fly well in that envelope.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
On the E190, we land flaps 5 unless on a contaminated or short runway. CAT III is always flaps 5 for go-around purposes. It seems to me that the plane just likes to fly approaches fast. When you get a slow Vapp, the plane seems to "wallow" around a lot, particularly in gusty conditions. I would prefer to be flaps 5 with Stall Prot Ice speeds (10 knots fast). It seems to fly well in that envelope.
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Gusty contamination!!! Ahhhh!
 
When I was on the CRJ-200 it was full flaps for all landings (normal).

On the 'Bus 320 there's no specified number(s) for crosswind and flap setting, just a general guidance that with strong crosswinds flaps 3 can be considered. Max demonst. including gust is 38 kts. My personal rule of thumb is if the x-wind component (steady or gust) is 25 kts or greater, I'll go flaps 3. Under 25kts x-wind I use flaps full.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
When I was on the CRJ-200 it was full flaps for all landings (normal).

On the 'Bus 320 there's no specified number(s) for crosswind and flap setting, just a general guidance that with strong crosswinds flaps 3 can be considered. Max demonst. including gust is 38 kts. My personal rule of thumb is if the x-wind component (steady or gust) is 25 kts or greater, I'll go flaps 3. Under 25kts x-wind I use flaps full.
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The first time I saw a CRJ-200 land no flaps was pretty thrilling. Super high AOA (relative to normal) and really fast approach speed. Used a good chunk of 26 @ PHX.
 
ozziecat35 said:
The first time I saw a CRJ-200 land no flaps was pretty thrilling. Super high AOA (relative to normal) and really fast approach speed. Used a good chunk of 26 @ PHX.
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IIRC flaps 0 on the CRJ is above the tire speeds in calm wind.
 
z987k said:
IIRC flaps 0 on the CRJ is above the tire speeds in calm wind.
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Not an RJ pilot, so I don't know what the speeds they were at were. This was back when I was still ramping for US in Phoenix. Heard on the radio a Mesa -200 had a flap failure and had declared / inbound to 26. Taxied back under his own power albeit with a flashy parade after him.
 
I really like the way fifi handles overall flaps 3 (which is like flaps 25 on a 757, flaps 30 on a CRJ or 737).... I'm 3 unless otherwise needed (short runway typically).

With a high crosswind, absolutely flaps 3... autothrust off? Absolutely! 95% of my landings are that way anyways.... much better energy delivery and pilot engagement into the flare.
 
I just autoland everything.

RayCharles_web.jpg
 
bc2209 said:
Good practice? Always should be done with reduced flaps? PIC decision?
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My Viking has huge flaps and they go to 45*. I use full flaps in every landing and in a gusty crosswind I want to touch down as slow as possible.

I too learned don't use full flaps in high wind. Old wifes tale in most GA models.

Fly it like you own it!
 
I did full flaps in the 172 Ms in high winds, but that's the second highest time airplane in my logbook(finally). I was comfortable with it. It does get a little helicopterish though. :)

SOP settings these days. Full on the 99. 25 or 45 in the Metro. 25 in the Brasilia. I do 45 into BQN though. I'm non-violently making Bravo dammit! Haha The Metro is VERY sloppy on final, but settles down in the flare better with full flaps IMO
 
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