135 checkride

B

Billy-85

New Member
Hello guys,
I am newbie to the site and I hope I am posting in the right place.

Well, I have I question and I was hoping you guys could clear it up for me. Well, a few months ago a got hired by a part 135 company in South Florida and was promised to fly a certain aircraft as a FO and a certain salary for the position. I began their basic indoc and aircraft systems in house, where they had their own pilot instructors. After a 1 1/2 week of ground training they took us to SIMCOM for flight training and their own instructor came along. The guy flew B727 many years ago and wanted us to hand fly a modern jet as he used to fly back in the days. I must say I had 600hrsTT at the time and never got into the cockpit of a jet before that. Anyway, we had 4 days of sim flying about 4 hrs each day. On the 5th day the company flew in their own check airme for what was supposed to be the checkride already. I struggled flying the sim since the checkairmen kept asking and requesting me to use all the autopilot functions (which the instructor never took the time to teach well enought since he wanted me to hand fly all times). I thought I had done ok taking in consideration the training or better saying the lack of training and my experience, but it wasn't enought for the guy. He pulled me on the side for a debriefing and told I would need to work on few things and told me that he would not give me the pink slip since they were going to take me back to the sim within a month with couple of guys that needed to do a recurrence check.
So we left and went back home. After few weeks, the chief pilot told me they were going to put me on the b200 and c208 as an copilot and I would also have to do office work for 1/3 of the salary that I was promised before.
Oh well, I kicked the bucked and told him no thanks.

My question to you guys is: since I never got a copy of a pink slip nor signed anything and he never signed anything on my logbook, do you think a record on my pria was created of that? I don't know what to say if I am asked of an interview if I ever failed a 135 check.

Thanks a lot guys.
 
No pink slip, no failure. Doesn't really sound like an above board situation though. My only experience is military and 121 though, so maybe that's usual for a smaller 135.
 
So, if ever asked on an interview should I just said no to 135 checkride failure ? I don't want to lie but at the same token don't want to have to try to explain what happened if not needed.

Thank you both for your replies.
 
Soku39 said:
No pink slip, no failure. Doesn't really sound like an above board situation though. My only experience is military and 121 though, so maybe that's usual for a smaller 135.
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It is not normal, and the operation sounds super shady.
 
Soku39 said:
Did you ever collect a paycheck from the company during training?
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They did mail me a check ($500) after I left the company for office work I've done for them but not during training nor for any flight as a pilot.

But if they were to issue me a pink slip, wouldn't they have to give me a copy and would the checkairmen had signed off on my logbook?

Thanks.
 
I think you can request a copy of your PRIA records from the company. Just request them, but don't tell them why, and see what's on there. Either way I wouldn't stress over 1 checkride failure, plenty of people have easily overcome that.
 
rockman2343@aol.com said:
I think you can request a copy of your PRIA records from the company. Just request them, but don't tell them why, and see what's on there. Either way I wouldn't stress over 1 checkride failure, plenty of people have easily overcome that.
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They sent me a copy o my pria record, but that was during the hiring process before going to the sim and it shows a clear record.

Thanks .
 
Assuming all 135s use the same forms. If a FLT-35 form was filled out, and sent to the FSDO, it's on your record. I'm not sure it's legal to just destroy that form if the checkride ended for whatever reason.

I'd really have to dig into HR rules(books I don't have with me and are probably obsolete today anyways), but, the way they pay you at Ameriflight, during indoc, at least, you have up to your checkride to quit or wash out. No PRIA required for AMF if that happens. Once the checkride is complete though, pass or fail, is when you become/don't become an employee, and the records become permanent. I think they have to send FLT-35 forms in, but are under no obligation to maintain records of someone that wasn't technically an employee. Someone that knows more about this than me can chime in. I don't think this is necessarily an FAA issue, but an HR issue.

In general though, I would say that once a checkride has commenced, that record and the training become permanent. South Florida 135 is the epicenter of not following rules and being shady in general though
 
UAL747400 said:
Assuming all 135s use the same forms. If a FLT-35 form was filled out, and sent to the FSDO, it's on your record. I'm not sure it's legal to just destroy that form if the checkride ended for whatever reason.

I'd really have to dig into HR rules(books I don't have with me and are probably obsolete today anyways), but, the way they pay you at Ameriflight, during indoc, at least, you have up to your checkride to quit or wash out. No PRIA required for AMF if that happens. Once the checkride is complete though, pass or fail, is when you become/don't become an employee, and the records become permanent. I think they have to send FLT-35 forms in, but are under no obligation to maintain records of someone that wasn't technically an employee. Someone that knows more about this than me can chime in. I don't think this is necessarily an FAA issue, but an HR issue.

In general though, I would say that once a checkride has commenced, that record and the training become permanent. South Florida 135 is the epicenter of not following rules and being shady in general though
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That's what I was getting at with the paycheck, it sounds like he was technically an employee. There's just so much wrong here, I don't know why anyone would get into the sim for a checkride in something like a 72 without learning how to use the automation. @Billy-85 for the first time in a long time I have no idea what the best advice would be. Good luck.
 
That sucks about the automation thing. I've been surprised to see it at my airline in the CRJ. A lot of the new hires have little to no experience with the combination of speed and automation. Obviously the automation helps with the speed, but if you don't know how to fully exploit the automation, then you can really get behind the airplane in some of the sim scenarios.

I've talked to a couple of guys fresh out of IOE who were unlucky enough to get an LCA that overemphasized hand-flying and left them a bit too unfamiliar with the automation. The way I see it, most days of line flying are ordinary enough to give you ample opportunity to get comfortable hand flying the airplane in appropriate situations. Most airplanes fly reasonably similar anyway. Better to be able to utilize all of you automation resources hairy situations.
 
Sadly this is a fairly common practice in 135 Checkrides, rather than fail we will just count this as a training flight. A Checkride form must be signed by the applicant to make it valid regardless of pass or fail. A training flight does not need this signature. Basically the check airman turned the Checkride into a training flight. Not an acceptable practice and one which could cost him his check airman qualification. That being said I would not include this on pria paperwork. You did not work for this company as a pilot and never completed training either. No there won't be any paperwork sent in to the FAA. No you did not fail a Checkride, although you should have. While what happened is prohibited by the FAA I guess it worked in your favor. Fact is the company is not even required to retain your training records as you were never employed by them, and effectively washed out of training.
PRIA is a very interesting bird really. I've seen responses such as yep this person was employed by us as a pilot and others that came back as an entire binder. It's very much up to the previous employer what is included. The Feds do provide suggested guidance but that's really all it is, suggestions.
 
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