Pilot Error to Blame in PHL Aborted T/O

wheelsup said:
Well prepared for a V1 cut/stalls/steep turns when the last time you did one was 12 months ago? I dunno, I never really had an issue with them but I found the 12 months cycle as an FO to be sorely lacking in many areas.
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I think ours should be 9. I agree.
 
jtrain609 said:
You think the guy that isn't controlling the plane is always as in the loop about everything the airplane is doing as the guy that is controlling the aircraft?

Do they teach mind reading where you work?
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You need to do some reading on accidents and the role of the Pilot Monitoring. A PERFECT recent example is the Asiana Jet that hit the sea wall in SFO.
 
jtrain609 said:
Want to make your point and back it up instead? You know professionals can disagree about procedures, correct?
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I can easily make my point. A lot of times the PM can see a problem develop before the PF. This is backed up with numerous examples of accidents over the years. There really is no disagreement here. The facts back up that point.
 
Seggy said:
I can easily make my point. A lot of times the PM can see a problem develop before the PF. This is backed up with numerous examples of accidents over the years. There really is no disagreement here. The facts back up that point.
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Then by that logic shouldn't the PNF always be doing the abort?
 
jtrain609 said:
Then by that logic shouldn't the PNF always be doing the abort?
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No.

The high speed abort is the most dangerous procedure we do. You shouldn't have any grey area on who is to conduct that procedure. If you can limit the chance of uncertainty of who is doing it or calling it you must.
 
Seggy said:
No.

The high speed abort is the most dangerous procedure we do. You shouldn't have any grey area on who is to conduct that procedure. If you can limit the chance of uncertainty of who is doing it or calling it you must.
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I'm aware of this. I'm arguing that we should train, and brief, that the PF should always do the abort.

But you said the PNF can see problems happening faster, so your argument leads to the conclusion that the PNF should always do the abort.

But what you're really saying is that it's arbitrary that the captain will always do the abort no matter whether they're flying or not. It's that or you don't realize you're making two arguments at once.

That's not factually driven, that's arbitrary. We either trust first officers to not crash the airplane or we don't, but if we don't they shouldn't be doing take offs or landings. If we trust first officers, we should train them to fly the plane from the start of the take off roll to the roll out. Or, if you're saying the facts back it up, we should have the PNF always do the abort.

But if we're going to say captains should always do the abort because they're captains, just say it.
 
jtrain609 said:
I'm aware of this. I'm arguing that we should train, and brief, that the PF should always do the abort.

But you said the PNF can see problems happening faster, so your argument leads to the conclusion that the PNF should always do the abort.

But what you're really saying is that it's arbitrary that the captain will always do the abort no matter whether they're flying or not. It's that or you don't realize you're making two arguments at once.

That's not factually driven, that's arbitrary. We either trust first officers to not crash the airplane or we don't, but if we don't they shouldn't be doing take offs or landings. If we trust first officers, we should train them to fly the plane from the start of the take off roll to the roll out. Or, if you're saying the facts back it up, we should have the PNF always do the abort.

But if we're going to say captains should always do the abort because they're captains, just say it.
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This isn't a FO or Captain thing so get over that. It is the point that the PF doesn't always see things before the PM going wrong with the airplane.
 
Seggy said:
This isn't a FO or Captain thing so get over that. It is the point that the PF doesn't always see things before the PM going wrong with the airplane.
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So the PM should do the abort then.

Somebody has a superior view of what's happening, and that person should do the abort. Who is that person?
 
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