Phenom 100 crash in MD

mshunter said:
I think you'd need to see what happened to understand my comment. There was a crew who stalled high in the flight levels who only marginally increased power, and pulled right back into the shaker multiple times. This was before the FAA advocated also reducing the AOA. What bothers me most about this incident was neither pilot EVER went full power.
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Have you done that in the sim yet? You end up losing a LOT of altitude to get it flying again.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Have you done that in the sim yet? You end up losing a LOT of altitude to get it flying again.
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Yep. Pretty much tell "ATC" we are descending, thrust levers to the wall, and get it flying again. Still blows my mind seeing the data from the incident. How do you get the shaker, not go full power, and pull back into it multiple times?!?! If they ever released the names, both would be on my short list.
 
Regardless if the pilot screwed up or not, I am so deeply sadden for the father that just lost his wife and two sons that had nothing to do with the flight. I am no where close to being a parent, but I can't even comprehend that level of grief and pain. Prayers for him and his daughter.
 
mshunter said:
Because poor people can all afford those airplanes.
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I think it is easy to start down the "people who can afford the airplane." But I would argue that it is more of a "people flying more airplane than they can handle." We see similar issues when people go out and buy super cars and then wrap them around trees. I think just this week/last week, I saw some celebrity bought their 16 year old daughter a brand new Ferrari? I would at least like to believe that there is a group of well healed owners that are very safe, proactively seek the training they need, and serve as roll models to the future generations.

I have always focused on safety and am pretty conservative. At the same point, while earning my MEL, I learned more in the 5 seconds of recovering from nearly an inadvertent VMC roll on short final while practicing single engine approaches. I guess we all have the "current" vs "proficient" battle going on in our heads.
 
mshunter said:
Yep. Pretty much tell "ATC" we are descending, thrust levers to the wall, and get it flying again. Still blows my mind seeing the data from the incident. How do you get the shaker, not go full power, and pull back into it multiple times?!?! If they ever released the names, both would be on my short list.
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Every once and a while you fly with someone "special" and you see exactly how stuff like that happens.
 
fholbert said:
Even if this accident is the result of multiple pilot errors I don't understand the desire to eat our own.
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The guy had previously balled up an airplane due to loss of control. That's what we call a "track record" and when "our own" manage to keep flying and go get people killed it makes some of us rather cranky.
 
killbilly said:
You may not think it, but I agree with you. I suspect it sounds otherwise because of my earlier questions about at-fault enforcement actions.

From what I've read thus far, the PIC had well over 4K TT - that's a lot. Dunno how much time he had in type.
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Meh, I wouldn't call 4,000 hours A LOT. I'd call it enough for most types of operations. You can accumulate 4,000 hours pretty quickly, depending on what you do for a living.

But 4,000 hours with gaping holes in fundamentals? That's a problem, because those fundamental problems have been reinforced for 4,000 hours.
 
jtrain609 said:
Meh, I wouldn't call 4,000 hours A LOT. I'd call it enough for most types of operations. You can accumulate 4,000 hours pretty quickly, depending on what you do for a living.

But 4,000 hours with gaping holes in fundamentals? That's a problem, because those fundamental problems have been reinforced for 4,000 hours.
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I was trying to figure out the best way to respond to that, and I think you've said it best here. We've all flown with those 4000+ hour types that just leave you scratching your head...
 
Derg said:
I've cheated the Reaper at least three times in my television-side couch math.
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I've done it once, but I'm still what I would consider the "FNG." I know enough to know that I still don't know enough. Been making a living flying now for 7+ years.

When I did it, or rather almost did it, it scared the crap outta me. I'm lucky to be here to talk about it, over beers in a dimly lit bar of course.
 
surreal1221 said:
Some folks just do not deserve to be in the front of an aircraft. Regardless of size or powerplant type.
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I flew jump seat on a PSA 727 years ago Fresno to LAX, about a 25 minute flight. I did that every other week.

I think we had the worlds sharpest First Officer and a Captain who shouldn't have been up front. Twice the First Officer nudged the controls, a third time he took them when we were overshooting final onto the parallel final approach course. Funny part was the Captain was used to it and only said whoops. I wondered if they were paired up on purpose?
 
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