UPS FEDEX. 2 Questions

Propilot

Propilot

Well-Known Member
So, apologize for the dumb question as Im sure most everyone else on here knows this, but UPS and FEDEX pilots...what percentage of flying is back side of the clock? Ive always assumed most of it, but you know what they say about assuming.

Also, why don't they allow international jumpseat? My understanding is that it used to be a TSA rule post 9/11, something about a cockpit door, but that the TSA recently changed the rule and FEDEX/UPS have yet to change their manuals. Any truth to this?. Passenger airlines are just now finishing up a pilot program to allow jumpseating in the cockpit on international flights. Any chance UPS/FEDEX will do the same?

Thanks

/curious
 
Propilot said:
So, apologize for the dumb question as Im sure most everyone else on here knows this, but UPS and FEDEX pilots...what percentage of flying is back side of the clock? Ive always assumed most of it, but you know what they say about assuming.

Also, why don't they allow international jumpseat? My understanding is that it used to be a TSA rule post 9/11, something about a cockpit door, but that the TSA recently changed the rule and FEDEX/UPS have yet to change their manuals. Any truth to this?. Passenger airlines are just now finishing up a pilot program to allow jumpseating in the cockpit on international flights. Any chance UPS/FEDEX will do the same?

Thanks

/curious
Click to expand...

I'm not at either company, but the international jumpseat issue is strange to me, as well. We (Atlas) allow international jumpseating on the freighters; FDX pilots routinely jumpseat on us out of HKG, but we can't jumpseat internationally on them or UPS.
 
Do you think it's something to do with international ramp access?
 
Derg said:
Do you think it's something to do with international ramp access?
Click to expand...

I think it has to do with...

Cute-Baby-Funny-Photo.jpg
 
I have heard that about 80% of the flying they do these days is during daylight hours. However, I can't remember where I heard that and have no idea if it's really true.

Hope that helps (I'm sure it doesn't).
 
I'd say domestically it's 2/3rds night stuff and 1/3 day stuff. It's complicated because night stuff is sometimes a west coast guy doing one leg to SDF. You are at the hotel by midnight your time. And "day" stuff from the west coast shows at like 430am. So not exactly EASY day flying. Anyhow, the lines are so mixed up and "optimized" that there are no pure city pairs and there is almost always some crap on a good line. As a general rule, good commuting lines go senior, even if it's brutal flying. That would be week on, week off, with night sort sits. The good news is with some seniority there is something for everyone and living in base sometimes makes a nasty line not all that bad.

As to the international jumpseat issue. I honesty have no idea. I thought it was a TSA thing but not sure how to explain that Atlas can do it and UPS can't.
 
I also think it's important to note that everyone's body is different in how they deal with time zones and back side of the clock flying. Personally I love international because of the interesting destinations and flying variety, however when I flew for a FedEx feeder doing night runs I found it was much easier for me to adjust either direction than international which can be unpredictable depending on the trip. I often talk to pilots that say they are uninterested in UPS or FedEx because they don't want to get old quickly but then tell me their career goal is United international flying or something along those lines. Again, everyone is different but there's no question that either is that healthy for you long-term. On that note at any PAX carrier the payrates are higher for bigger airplanes so domestic will never (with exceptions of course) pay as much as doing international trips on a bigger airframe. Perhaps getting senior daytime only trips at somewhere like FedEx/UPS in a large airplane would be optimal if you wanted to avoid the night flying or time zone changes but could take years to hold the trips you want. Just trying to add to the discussion in general, I'm certainly not an expert.

On the jumpseat note, TSA now allows it but most airlines have not changed their computer system and/or policies for it to work. Atlas some sort of different system to check people, I don't know much about it but it's a great setup. I'm certain cost is a factor.
 
Propilot said:
So, apologize for the dumb question as Im sure most everyone else on here knows this, but UPS and FEDEX pilots...what percentage of flying is back side of the clock? Ive always assumed most of it, but you know what they say about assuming.

Also, why don't they allow international jumpseat? My understanding is that it used to be a TSA rule post 9/11, something about a cockpit door, but that the TSA recently changed the rule and FEDEX/UPS have yet to change their manuals. Any truth to this?. Passenger airlines are just now finishing up a pilot program to allow jumpseating in the cockpit on international flights. Any chance UPS/FEDEX will do the same?

Thanks

/curious
Click to expand...



It's not a dumb question. A lot of people think that the flying is all night flying. As already indicated, once you start flying international it doesn't matter at all. The flying will be day/night across multiple time zones no matter what. Well, unless you get good day trips that go north/south. I wouldn't make the type of flying a deciding factor on the company. You'd get red eyes on the A320 and B737 at all the major pax carriers as well.


TP
 
typhoonpilot said:
It's not a dumb question. A lot of people think that the flying is all night flying. As already indicated, once you start flying international it doesn't matter at all. The flying will be day/night across multiple time zones no matter what. Well, unless you get good day trips that go north/south. I wouldn't make the type of flying a deciding factor on the company. You'd get red eyes on the A320 and B737 at all the major pax carriers as well.


TP
Click to expand...
Kinda unexpectedly (to me), I ran into a Spirit pilot who said he's barely done any daytime flying in the last 6 months. Apparently lots of redeyes for them.

The trip I just finished was domestic, with 3-4 hour sits at the sort in the middle of the night. It really wasn't bad... I got 7-8 hours of sleep every day, thanks to blackout curtains, a sleep mask, and white noise generator. I didn't feel beat up at all by the end.

The guys who look like death at the sort are the ones who sit there drinking cokes and eating pizza at 3am. Go figure.
 
A majority of FedEx overnight runs also have day runs for postal operations. Surprisingly it was not uncommon to see junior people doing day flying vs night flying. The difference in those that flew at night vs day was quite interesting, very different crowd. Some people just got use to do a out and back starting at 3am...very convenient if you choose to live in domicile at MEM.

What I was told about international jumpseat might be more of an internal company thing but apparently either in HKG/PVG or DXB a jumper (pilot) got left behind due to a dispatcher having higher company seniority.

I only worked at MEM so I couldn't on a continuous bases see the pairings for different domiciles, but I'd imagine besides MEM, IND, and LAX, all other domiciles would be mostly focused on night flying (answered a lot of intra Europe calls at night).
 
dasleben said:
I'm not at either company, but the international jumpseat issue is strange to me, as well. We (Atlas) allow international jumpseating on the freighters; FDX pilots routinely jumpseat on us out of HKG, but we can't jumpseat internationally on them or UPS.
Click to expand...

We use a system that is not CASS to approve international jumpseaters.

They needed something post 9/11 to get animal grooms, mechanics and loadies on the freighters.
 
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