Ameriflight

eightballfreight said:
Whoa, let's back up. There are no metrics to compare small freight guys to any other kind of pilots so let's not try.

I've done a lot of illegal chit to keep the schedule integrity and fibbed on numbers and times. That doesn't fly in the 121 world of what I'm sure is electronically monitored and relies on a whole host of different people from different teams.
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Brasilia at AMF, Brasilia at Skywest. Same. Exact. Job.
 
UAL747400 said:
It's not about about chest thumping or the cowboy non-sense(which is just about done with now, there's 2 guys in SLC that I know of that still do the Salmon BS still). It's about doing the EXACT same job, sometimes 3, as a 121 guy, with less support but the exact same coordination required to depart on time. 3 different mindsets. (I'll fly the Metro by myself, Brasilia left seat and then the right seat in the span of two days or less)@KLB

I think the Metro is a cool airplane and more interesting than the 1900. That is where the ribbing stops between those two.

Maybe it's because I think those 99% do the bare minimum each day. We're running at a 98% effectiveness rate. Yes, I've seen ALL of the AMF delays in a given week. It's not due to anyone else except the pilots. No other airline touches that number. Even other freight companies.

It's been also pointed out before that the majority don't meet the mins or competitive mins. The majority of the pilot group doesn't even have 3000 hours. Of course they're not going to Delta...
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I don't disagree that the job is harder, but does that equate to a better pilot? Because you have to do the paperwork and load the airplane, that makes a better pilot than a regional guy? I don't understand what benefit that translates to in the real world. What does that equate to other than bragging rights?
 
Inverted said:
I don't disagree that the job is harder, but does that equate to a better pilot? Because you have to do the paperwork and load the airplane, that makes a better pilot than a regional guy? I don't understand what benefit that translates to in the real world. What does that equate to other than bragging rights?
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Certainly not by default.

I don't know man, I just see a unique perspective in the 135 world that makes us better at the job. I'd say it's more from "comparing notes" with my freinds. Maybe all my friends doing other things are idiots... :)
 
Well, I think we all know who had too much rum to drink tonight. ;)

In all seriousness, I know that there are some good pilots at AMF, and some non-very-good pilots at AMF. To say that AMF'ers are better than regional pilots is quite a broad statement. AMF does not need to deal with passengers, and that alone is a huge difference that must be realized.
 
Inverted said:
I don't disagree that the job is harder, but does that equate to a better pilot? Because you have to do the paperwork and load the airplane, that makes a better pilot than a regional guy? I don't understand what benefit that translates to in the real world. What does that equate to other than bragging rights?
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Yes. An unequivocal yes. Ultimately, the regional guy is better prepared for flying 121 - and if that's what you want to do, this guy will come out on top every time...but, in terms of learning how to fly, learning work-load management, learning how to take care of your own problems on the road, and being an "aviator" rather than simply a pilot - the harder the job, the better you're generally prepared to handle the unexpected, because you've already experienced unexpected things before.
 
Boyington said:
Well, I think we all know who had too much rum to drink tonight. ;)

In all seriousness, I know that there are some good pilots at AMF, and some non-very-good pilots at AMF. To say that AMF'ers are better than regional pilots is quite a broad statement. AMF does not need to deal with passengers, and that alone is a huge difference that must be realized.
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Nah, no rum tonight! Something is wrong...:oops:

I'm not tooting my own horn at all. I'm one of the bad ones as far as I know. When I was younger and lower time, of all the sectors, there was an allure to freight flying(121 freight for that matter too) and the guys that made it happen that I didn't see in other areas and still don't really.
 
I am gonna tell you guys right now that the locker room jock ego BS holds no weight outside of the little freight circle.

ppragman said:
Yes. An unequivocal yes. Ultimately, the regional guy is better prepared for flying 121 - and if that's what you want to do, this guy will come out on top every time...but, in terms of learning how to fly, learning work-load management, learning how to take care of your own problems on the road, and being an "aviator" rather than simply a pilot - the harder the job, the better you're generally prepared to handle the unexpected, because you've already experienced unexpected things before.
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Let me ask you in all honesty, what is your end goal dream job?
 
AMF is what it is. People are getting way too bent out of shape trying to "prove" that AMF is bad/good for future airline career potential. Generally, the guys who think that Delta/American/United are going to hire them straight from a 1900/Metro are kidding themselves. But that isn't abnormal for a decent portion of the pilot population.

There are kids dropping wads of cash on ATP/Riddle/UND whatever thinking that it will help them get hired quickly and they will be rich airline pilots. There are guys who are flying regionals who believe that they will be hired before military pilots because of their FMS/glass/crew/airline experience, and there are military pilots who think they will be hired before the regional guys. Bottom line, we all like to think that what we are doing will somehow provide us with superior opportunities to advance to our goal. If we didn't feel that it would help us to attain our goal we wouldn't take the job or make the sacrifices required.

That said, I know a number of former AMF pilots who are doing very well for themselves, many who decided to go to regional airlines and are doing well, at least 5 who are flying as corporate jet captains, 3 who are at Allegiant, 1 who went directly to JetBlue, and many who are/were air ambulance pilots. So AMF might not get you right seat at Delta, but it doesn't really hurt you either.

Lastly, AMF pilots are damn good pilots if you are looking for someone to hand fly an aircraft from point A to point B in shoddy weather at night. A regional pilot is a great pilot if you want someone who can operate the autopilot/FMS and keep the pax and captain/crew happy. The fighter pilot is a great pilot if you want someone to use the aircraft as a weapon to accomplish a mission in a hostile environment. The helo pilots (while absolutely insane in my opinion) are superior pilots if you want someone to take off and land in a 50' x 50' area and evacuate a critically wounded person. Obviously, these are generalizations, there are always exceptions so nobodies feelings should be hurt. 80% of pilots think they are above average...and they are RIGHT...but only because the values they choose to emphasize are subconsciously changed to place them in the "above average" category.
 
UAL747400 said:
Brasilia at AMF, Brasilia at Skywest. Same. Exact. Job.
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About 98% (stupid arbitrary numbers) of the time this is correct. There are more factors to consider such as a flight attendant in the back along with actually having to deal with passengers. There are different operational requirements when hauling passengers but they are not hard to learn. That said I rarely ever see any problems coming up with passengers that the flight attendants haven't been able to deal with.

Inverted said:
I don't disagree that the job is harder, but does that equate to a better pilot? Because you have to do the paperwork and load the airplane, that makes a better pilot than a regional guy? I don't understand what benefit that translates to in the real world. What does that equate to other than bragging rights?
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In some ways they are better pilots. They haven't had the crutches that airline pilots have had for quite some time. Seeing crews come off a plane with an MEL'd FMS as if it was their greatest accomplishment and seeing some captains struggling to track green needles and such means they have lost some of the most basic of skills for instrument flying.

Obviously you can't say "all" regional pilots are worse since freight has its bad apples and frankly there are great pilots at the regionals.

AMF flying does have some benefits that tons and tons of captains in the regionals do not have. For instance I have had 4 Initial training events and two PIC type rides since 2011. The captain I recently flew with hasn't done an initial training event in well over a decade and many have only ever done one initial training event in their career.

At the United Open House I asked if my time at AMF was worth while and the recruiter said yes. They don't care where the times comes from. They look at quality, complexity, and quantity. He then said that in many ways T-prop aircraft are more complex than jets.
 
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Maurus said:
About 98% (stupid arbitrary numbers) of the time this is correct. There are more factors to consider such as a flight attendant in the back along with actually having to deal with passengers. There are different operational requirements when hauling passengers but they are not hard to learn. That said I rarely ever see any problems coming up with passengers that the flight attendants haven't been able to deal with.



In some ways they are better pilots. They haven't had the crutches that airline pilots have had for quite some time. Seeing crews come off a plane with an MEL'd FMS as if it was their greatest accomplishment and seeing some captains struggling to track green needles and such means they have lost some of the most basic of skills for instrument flying.

Obviously you can't say "all" regional pilots are worse since freight has its bad apples and frankly there are great pilots at the regionals.

AMF flying does have some benefits that tons and tons of captains in the regionals do not have. For instance I have had 4 Initial training events and two PIC type rides since 2011. The captain I recently flew with hasn't done an initial training event in well over a decade and many have only ever done one initial training event in their career.

At the United Open House I asked if my time at AMF was worth while and the recruiter said yes. They don't care where the times comes from. They look at quality, complexity, and quantity. He then said that in many ways T-prop aircraft are more complex than jets.
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I stopped calling them tprops. They are ultra high bypass unducted geared variable geometry turbofans.
the tpe on the commander had about 10% total thrust out the back.
 
flyboy6585 said:
AMF is what it is. People are getting way too bent out of shape trying to "prove" that AMF is bad/good for future airline career potential. Generally, the guys who think that Delta/American/United are going to hire them straight from a 1900/Metro are kidding themselves. But that isn't abnormal for a decent portion of the pilot population.
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not airlines but how good is it for someone who does not want to do airlines but say a corporate, charter or whatever else?
how many hours flown per year (average)?
and how is the qol/pay?

are people actually moving from amf to other jobs? or with what i listed above wouldnt it just make more sense to do some time at a regional and then go to a corp , charter etc?
 
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soakingpilot said:
how good is it for someone who does not want to do airlines but say a corporate, charter or whatever?
how many hours flown per year ?
and how is the qol/pay?
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Many pilots, including myself, went charter/corporate after AMF. It's quite normal actually.
 
soakingpilot said:
not airlines but how good is it for someone who does not want to do airlines but say a corporate, charter or whatever else?
how many hours flown per year (average)?
and how is the qol/pay?

are people actually moving from amf to other jobs? or with what i listed above wouldnt it just make more sense to do some time at a regional and then go to a corp , charter etc?
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It's a great gig for those that want to do charter/corporate. You can easily move on after a couple years. I would say this is a better avenue than the regionals if your goal is smaller jets.

Hours will greatly depend on base and run. I will guess 300-800 hours per year. QOL sucks, pay sucks.
 
Inverted said:
It's a great gig for those that want to do charter/corporate. You can easily move on after a couple years. I would say this is a better avenue than the regionals if your goal is smaller jets.

Hours will greatly depend on base and run. I will guess 300-800 hours per year. QOL sucks, pay sucks.
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heh of course you had to say it but how small is a smaller jet? I mean I would be chill with a 604, Falcon 900 ( dreams right? ) etc or does that come after you have rocked the smaller jets say a 400xp or lear 45 ? or would flying a regional say a CR2 be a better transition for somethnig like a 604 ( basically the same thing anyways ).. Frankly thats what I cant wrap my head around how the regionals are not the superior method to get into something like that. I really dont know this is why I ask. I mean if I was an employers wouldnt I want someone with similar sized aircraft experience as opposed to say a beech 99?

2nd. With qol and pay sucking.. Why and how much? Cheers
 
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soakingpilot said:
heh of course you had to say it but how small is a smaller jet? I mean I would be chill with a 604, Falcon 900 ( dreams right? ) etc or does that come after you have rocked the smaller jets say a 400xp or lear 45 ? or would flying a regional say a CR2 be a better transition for somethnig like a 604 ( basically the same thing anyways ).. Frankly thats what I cant wrap my head around how the regionals are not the superior method to get into something like that. I really dont know this is why I ask. I mean if I was an employers wouldnt I want someone with similar sized aircraft experience as opposed to say a beech 99?

2nd. With qol and pay sucking.. Why and how much? Cheers
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Aviation is all about who you know, not what you know. Those who have gotten really good jobs out of AMF were most likely friends with their "in" at the company. AMF is a horrible place for networking because you hardly run into anyone.

I would not expect a super midsize, or a large cabin aircraft right from AMF. It happens but it's not common place. You'll more than likey be taking an entry level jet job with a company like TMC. Expect to take a jet job where you are overworked and underpaid after AMF. Then once you build some jet time, do some networking, you can move onto a better job.

The reason why regionals are not the most optimal route to charter/corporate is because the 121 world has has a stigma associated with them and furloughing. 121 furlough pilots love 135 jet charter but leave as soon as they get recalled. For that reason, 135 operators are sometimes reluctant to hire.

Well established, high paying 135 charter and fractional companies don't always hire turbine fright guys, I'm sure they hire 121 guys too. I can't say that one is more desirable than the other. The majority of charter guys I fly with are ex 121.

To answer your next question, AMF just issued a pay raise but it is still bad. I can't remember what it is to start. QOL will depend on the base, but expect super long days no matter what run you're on.
 
Right, so if most of the charter people you fly with for example are 121's then it would seem like the 121 stigma does not really apply and hence thats the better route.
Moreover then piston freight time would be pretty much 0 in your opinion?

Someone should really write a book on this stuff as to how to get from point a to b the quickest.
 
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